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Negative charge circuit to repel snow particles

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Rajkumar512, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. Rajkumar512

    Rajkumar512 Guest

    Is there any one who can advice me on building a negative charge circuit. I am
    a beginner at circuit designing and i want to confirm my ideas to build a
    Negative Charge Circuit.

    I am planning to use a 555 timer to generate 1kHz clock frequency and use a
    operational amplifier LM741 to bring it down to below 0 Volt. I am using a long
    copper wire connected to op-amp output for negative charge. I am also aware
    there are other passive component needed, but i can work that out by myself.

    The idea of long copper wire which will be place in zig-zag position on top of
    wooden/plastic tray, is basically to test whether it has the potential to repel
    snow paticles which is said to be negatively charge by many enviormental
    research.

    My Question:
    Is positive voltage inverted to negative by an Op-Amp considered as negative
    charge?

    Thank you.
    Raj
     
  2. mike

    mike Guest

    Do the math first.
    How much charge, relative to what, do you need to generate enough force
    to repel the mass of the snow particle.

    Design the experiment second.

    Then, design the electronics to meet the needs of the experiment.

    Think Oscilloscope.
    Make long vertical panels. Apply BIG volts between the panels...way
    more than you can get out of a 741...the math will tell you how much
    given the mass and charge of the snow particle.
    Measure the deflection of the snow particle as it falls thru the space
    between the panels.
    mike

    --
    Bunch of stuff For Sale and Wanted at the link below.
    laptops and parts Test Equipment
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    http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Monitor/4710/
     
  3. Neil

    Neil Guest

    Sounds like the amount of power required will zap the poor snow particle,
    (and anything else that happens to touch the panels) into
    oblivion.....ZAP!!!!!!!!!!!.
    Lotsa steam from frying snow....no repulsion.
    One other part of the experiment...Practicality.
    Will the amount of power required be less than what it will take to operate
    a snow blower for a season??
    (or feed a chubby, middle aged husband that has to do it over a
    season...aka, ME!).
    As well....who the hell ever said that all snow particles have one specific
    charge......specifically negative.
    DONT MAKE ME RUN AFTER EACH INDIVIDUAL SNOWFLAKE WITH MY RADIO SHACK,
    DELUXE CHARGE MAGNETOMETER......... AGAIN!!!, the neighbours are starting to
    talk..

    -Kim
     
  4. Rajkumar512

    Rajkumar512 Guest

    Actually i don't reallly know how much power needed to repel the snow
    particles.

    It's all started when I have seen a ducumentary over the TV about snow
    paticles, that really interested me. Searching through internet, by those who
    did reseach on the snow particles, did confirm me that snow particles do carry
    negetive charge.

    Basically what i'm actually wanted to do is "Anti Frost Sign Board". Below are
    some of the intresting link that actually inspired me to carry on with my
    ideas.


    http://snobear.colorado.edu/Markw/SnowHydro/mol.html
    http://www.avalanche.org/~issw/96/art_29_.html
    http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/CuttingEdge/cuttingedge020222.html

    I am a secondary drop out, thus do not poses much knowledge in realm of
    electronics or physics, however i am a self learning individual through trials
    and errors. I love to explorer new knowledges but definately not sitting in
    front of book and then take a test to grade me.

    p/s: i don't really know what's the end result will be but if i never try i
    will never know. :)

    Thank you for taking intrest in my idea.

    Raj
     
  5. Joe Legris

    Joe Legris Guest


    The second article you mention has most of the information you would
    need to build a snow-flake charge measuring device. Were you able to
    understand it?
     
  6. But you don't understand the workings of the US Patent system. He can
    probably get a patent for an 'Electrostatic Snow Repulsion System' which
    consists of embedding conductive coils in a surface and applying a
    voltage to them.

    Then, he can sue everyone who installs heating coils in driveways or
    sidewalks for infringement.

    ;-)
     
  7. I'd start simpler, perhaps with a 9V battery.
    There is a + and a -.
    Hold the - to the snowflake and the positive to the
    surface you want to have snow free.

    Rene
     
  8. Dave VanHorn

    Dave VanHorn Guest

    My Question:
    Don't forget the parallel test, of a grounded wire, to see how much effect
    the wire's physical presense is involved.

    I think you're going to find out that the effect is pretty darned small,
    even at 9000V, and that a tiny puff of wind will erase all your work.

    Still, by all means, do the experiment!
     
  9. Rajkumar512

    Rajkumar512 Guest

    Thanks Joe, i had made appointment with some physics uni. student next week,
    actually i am quit wondering what kind of question really to ask them for my
    project, you have given me a better things to ask :)

    Raj
     
  10. Rajkumar512

    Rajkumar512 Guest

    But you don't understand the workings of the US Patent system. He can
    it is not my intention to copy cat others ideas, it's just happen to be while i
    am doing my search over the internet, google shows me that scientist page. i
    have originally thought of it when i see the snow documentary over the tv.

    I do respect others ideas as i myself, i considered as an inventor but yet to
    succeed! Although without strong educational back ground, i have worked many
    trial and error crazy experiment based on my personal experiances although
    nothing really great happen to me yet, but someday :)

    just an opinion ;-)

    thankx
    Raj
     
  11. Rajkumar512

    Rajkumar512 Guest

    2 weeks later i will be going to mountain to get some real experiment, if
    anything interesting i will let you all knows about it. meanwhile i also
    looking into other solution such as using wind powered wiper etc.

    thank for all your suggestions :)

    Raj
     
  12. My post was more of a jab at the crazy US Patent system than your
    development.
     
  13. Tim Auton

    Tim Auton Guest

    Hey! You don't have a jab at the US Patent system - I patented that
    idea in 1992!

    I'll see you in court for my 17-squillion dollars!


    Tim
     
  14. Iwo Mergler

    Iwo Mergler Guest

    Hmm, this is weird enough to be a troll, but just in case
    you're serious:

    If that story about the snowflakes is true, you'll probably
    need high voltage - much higher than a 741 can handle.

    An op-amp can't go more negative than its negative power
    supply. Especially the 741 is notorious for not even
    coming close.

    Have a look at schematics for air ionisers, it's doing what
    you want - high negative voltage.

    Here is a suicide-grade one:

    http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/ioniser.htm

    Try something like this one instead:

    http://www.geocities.com/~uwezi/electronics/projects/ionizer.html

    There are also plenty of kits and finished devices around.

    Kind regards,

    Iwo
     
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