# Negative charge circuit to repel snow particles

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Rajkumar512, Nov 24, 2003.

1. ### Rajkumar512Guest

Is there any one who can advice me on building a negative charge circuit. I am
a beginner at circuit designing and i want to confirm my ideas to build a
Negative Charge Circuit.

I am planning to use a 555 timer to generate 1kHz clock frequency and use a
operational amplifier LM741 to bring it down to below 0 Volt. I am using a long
copper wire connected to op-amp output for negative charge. I am also aware
there are other passive component needed, but i can work that out by myself.

The idea of long copper wire which will be place in zig-zag position on top of
wooden/plastic tray, is basically to test whether it has the potential to repel
snow paticles which is said to be negatively charge by many enviormental
research.

My Question:
Is positive voltage inverted to negative by an Op-Amp considered as negative
charge?

Thank you.
Raj

2. ### mikeGuest

Do the math first.
How much charge, relative to what, do you need to generate enough force
to repel the mass of the snow particle.

Design the experiment second.

Then, design the electronics to meet the needs of the experiment.

Think Oscilloscope.
Make long vertical panels. Apply BIG volts between the panels...way
more than you can get out of a 741...the math will tell you how much
given the mass and charge of the snow particle.
Measure the deflection of the snow particle as it falls thru the space
between the panels.
mike

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3. ### NeilGuest

Sounds like the amount of power required will zap the poor snow particle,
(and anything else that happens to touch the panels) into
oblivion.....ZAP!!!!!!!!!!!.
Lotsa steam from frying snow....no repulsion.
One other part of the experiment...Practicality.
Will the amount of power required be less than what it will take to operate
a snow blower for a season??
(or feed a chubby, middle aged husband that has to do it over a
season...aka, ME!).
As well....who the hell ever said that all snow particles have one specific
charge......specifically negative.
DONT MAKE ME RUN AFTER EACH INDIVIDUAL SNOWFLAKE WITH MY RADIO SHACK,
DELUXE CHARGE MAGNETOMETER......... AGAIN!!!, the neighbours are starting to
talk..

-Kim

4. ### Rajkumar512Guest

Actually i don't reallly know how much power needed to repel the snow
particles.

It's all started when I have seen a ducumentary over the TV about snow
paticles, that really interested me. Searching through internet, by those who
did reseach on the snow particles, did confirm me that snow particles do carry
negetive charge.

Basically what i'm actually wanted to do is "Anti Frost Sign Board". Below are
some of the intresting link that actually inspired me to carry on with my
ideas.

http://www.avalanche.org/~issw/96/art_29_.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/CuttingEdge/cuttingedge020222.html

I am a secondary drop out, thus do not poses much knowledge in realm of
electronics or physics, however i am a self learning individual through trials
and errors. I love to explorer new knowledges but definately not sitting in
front of book and then take a test to grade me.

p/s: i don't really know what's the end result will be but if i never try i
will never know.

Thank you for taking intrest in my idea.

Raj

5. ### Joe LegrisGuest

The second article you mention has most of the information you would
need to build a snow-flake charge measuring device. Were you able to
understand it?

6. ### Paul Hovnanian P.E.Guest

But you don't understand the workings of the US Patent system. He can
probably get a patent for an 'Electrostatic Snow Repulsion System' which
consists of embedding conductive coils in a surface and applying a
voltage to them.

Then, he can sue everyone who installs heating coils in driveways or
sidewalks for infringement.

;-)

7. ### Rene TschaggelarGuest

I'd start simpler, perhaps with a 9V battery.
There is a + and a -.
Hold the - to the snowflake and the positive to the
surface you want to have snow free.

Rene

8. ### Dave VanHornGuest

My Question:
Don't forget the parallel test, of a grounded wire, to see how much effect
the wire's physical presense is involved.

I think you're going to find out that the effect is pretty darned small,
even at 9000V, and that a tiny puff of wind will erase all your work.

Still, by all means, do the experiment!

9. ### Rajkumar512Guest

Thanks Joe, i had made appointment with some physics uni. student next week,
actually i am quit wondering what kind of question really to ask them for my
project, you have given me a better things to ask

Raj

10. ### Rajkumar512Guest

But you don't understand the workings of the US Patent system. He can
it is not my intention to copy cat others ideas, it's just happen to be while i
am doing my search over the internet, google shows me that scientist page. i
have originally thought of it when i see the snow documentary over the tv.

I do respect others ideas as i myself, i considered as an inventor but yet to
succeed! Although without strong educational back ground, i have worked many
trial and error crazy experiment based on my personal experiances although
nothing really great happen to me yet, but someday

just an opinion ;-)

thankx
Raj

11. ### Rajkumar512Guest

2 weeks later i will be going to mountain to get some real experiment, if
anything interesting i will let you all knows about it. meanwhile i also
looking into other solution such as using wind powered wiper etc.

Raj

12. ### Paul Hovnanian P.E.Guest

My post was more of a jab at the crazy US Patent system than your
development.

13. ### Tim AutonGuest

Hey! You don't have a jab at the US Patent system - I patented that
idea in 1992!

I'll see you in court for my 17-squillion dollars!

Tim

14. ### Iwo MerglerGuest

Hmm, this is weird enough to be a troll, but just in case
you're serious:

If that story about the snowflakes is true, you'll probably
need high voltage - much higher than a 741 can handle.

An op-amp can't go more negative than its negative power
supply. Especially the 741 is notorious for not even
coming close.

Have a look at schematics for air ionisers, it's doing what
you want - high negative voltage.

http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/ioniser.htm

Try something like this one instead:

http://www.geocities.com/~uwezi/electronics/projects/ionizer.html

There are also plenty of kits and finished devices around.

Kind regards,

Iwo