Need to replace Electric Baseboard Heating Units & Replacement Windows

[Steve Spence]

If a propane burner can burn so clean....... WHY ARE THEY VENTED?????????

And while we are on it... WHY ARE THEY NOT 100% EFFICIENT?????????

Get a clue man, you're DANGEROUS!!!!!

Not all propane appliances are vented. Cooking ranges, fireplaces, and
others are designed that way. Spreading misinformation is dangerous, but
then you seem to know more than the manufacturers. A non-vented propane
fireplace is 100% efficient, since none of the heat goes up a chimney.

 

[Guest]

You're simply wrong on this. CO is a normal product of the combustion
of any fossil fuel. The normal levels are quite low for equipment
that's running properly.

Yeah I forgot... EVERYONE keeps their units in tip top shape!

And if these PROPANE heaters are so well made, burn efficiently, don't give
off deadly CO fumes... EVERYBODY would be going to them.

Guess what... that's not happening SHERLOCK!

Ever come across a furnace or boiler that pegs your CO meter?
I have... now guess what would have happened if they were VENTLESS.

Is your CO detector UL listed? If so, it CAN NOT display any notice
of CO until it's at 70ppm for at least 4 hours. OSHA 8 hour weighted
average is only 50ppm. EPA recommends CO in residences be no more
than 9ppm.

OH MY GAWD..... lets say your safe because your meter is UL approved!

You just showed your stupidity with this post.

Would you rather have a meter that sounds an alarm at 9 PPM or 70 PPM.

I think you have brain damage from inhaling to many Carbon Monoxide
fumes!!!!!

 

[Guest]

Not all propane appliances are vented. Cooking ranges, fireplaces, and
others are designed that way. Spreading misinformation is dangerous, but
then you seem to know more than the manufacturers. A non-vented propane
fireplace is 100% efficient, since none of the heat goes up a chimney.

BULLSHIT!!!!!!!

Just because they are UNVENTED, doesn't mean they don't produce CO.

And if they were 100% efficient... they wouldn't be creating CO... DIPSHIT.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

If a propane burner is emitting CO, then it's not adjusted properly. Our
gas company measured 13 ppm using the air-free method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

--

 

[Bubba]

Not all propane appliances are vented. Cooking ranges, fireplaces, and
others are designed that way. Spreading misinformation is dangerous, but
then you seem to know more than the manufacturers. A non-vented propane
fireplace is 100% efficient, since none of the heat goes up a chimney.

Dude,
Have you read the first two pages of those "non-vented" 100% efficient
heaters? Bythe time you finish reading all the warnings and
precautions you'll think twice before using a non vented appliance.
Bubba

 

[Steve Spence]

Yeah I forgot... EVERYONE keeps their units in tip top shape!

And if these PROPANE heaters are so well made, burn efficiently, don't give
off deadly CO fumes... EVERYBODY would be going to them.

Guess what... that's not happening SHERLOCK!

Ever come across a furnace or boiler that pegs your CO meter?
I have... now guess what would have happened if they were VENTLESS.



OH MY GAWD..... lets say your safe because your meter is UL approved!

You just showed your stupidity with this post.

Would you rather have a meter that sounds an alarm at 9 PPM or 70 PPM.

I think you have brain damage from inhaling to many Carbon Monoxide
fumes!!!!!

You showed your brain damage by thinking I posted that.

 

[Guest]

You showed your brain damage by thinking I posted that.

Is my post incorrect?
Did I say you posted that?

Please keep up or stay on the porch.

I for one, know that Steve Scott knows his shit. Unlike you.

 

[Steve Spence]

Is my post incorrect?
Did I say you posted that?

Please keep up or stay on the porch.

I for one, know that Steve Scott knows his shit. Unlike you.

I don't have time for rude little posers like you. I've been running and
fixing propane equipment for years. I take precautions, but I'm not
scared of it like you are. It's very common equipment among us
off-gridders, with years of worry free performance. If you value scott's
opinion so much, why did you mark his post as being stupid? Whatever,
you aren't worth the trouble. bbye now.

 

[[email protected]]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion

quoting from that source.....

Chemical equation

Generally, the chemical equation for stoichiometric burning of
hydrocarbon in oxygen is as follows:

C_xH_y + (x + \frac{y}{4})O_2 \rightarrow \; xCO_2 +
(\frac{y}{2})H_2O

For example, the burning of propane is:

C_3H_8 + 5O_2 \rightarrow \; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O

The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in oxygen
is:

\textrm{Fuel} + \textrm{Oxygen} \rightarrow \; \textrm{Heat} +
\textrm{Water} + \textrm{Carbon\ dioxide}

If the combustion takes place using air as the oxygen source, the
corresponding equations are:

C_xH_y + (x+ \frac{y}{4})O_2 + 3.76(x+ \frac{y}{4})N_2 \rightarrow
\; xCO_2 + (\frac{y}{2})H_2O + 3.76(x + \frac{y}{4})N_2

For example, the burning of propane is:

C_3H_8 + 5O_2 + 18.8N_2 \rightarrow \; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O + 18.8N_2

The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in air
is:

\textrm{Fuel} + \textrm{Air} \rightarrow \; \textrm{Heat} +
\textrm{Water} + \textrm{Carbon\ dioxide} + \textrm{Nitrogen}


bottom line, I couldnt see where CO by itself is produced.......by
combusting propane and oxygen or propane and air..... co2, yes, co,
no.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

quoting from that source.....

Chemical equation

Generally, the chemical equation for stoichiometric burning of
hydrocarbon in oxygen is as follows:

C_xH_y + (x + \frac{y}{4})O_2 \rightarrow \; xCO_2 +
(\frac{y}{2})H_2O

For example, the burning of propane is:

C_3H_8 + 5O_2 \rightarrow \; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O

The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in oxygen
is:

\textrm{Fuel} + \textrm{Oxygen} \rightarrow \; \textrm{Heat} +
\textrm{Water} + \textrm{Carbon\ dioxide}

If the combustion takes place using air as the oxygen source, the
corresponding equations are:

C_xH_y + (x+ \frac{y}{4})O_2 + 3.76(x+ \frac{y}{4})N_2 \rightarrow
\; xCO_2 + (\frac{y}{2})H_2O + 3.76(x + \frac{y}{4})N_2

For example, the burning of propane is:

C_3H_8 + 5O_2 + 18.8N_2 \rightarrow \; 3CO_2 + 4H_2O + 18.8N_2

The simple word equation for the combustion of a hydrocarbon in air
is:

\textrm{Fuel} + \textrm{Air} \rightarrow \; \textrm{Heat} +
\textrm{Water} + \textrm{Carbon\ dioxide} + \textrm{Nitrogen}


bottom line, I couldnt see where CO by itself is produced.......by
combusting propane and oxygen or propane and air..... co2, yes, co,
no.

Fish,

Yes I know this--here's where it does get produced :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion#Incomplete

--

 

[Mike]

Around here we call them EOR End Of Row like in rowhouses

Makes sense to me. Semantics

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Fish,

Yes I know this--here's where it does get produced :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combustion#Incomplete

http://www.carbonmonoxidedeaths.com/

--

 

[Guest]

I don't have time for rude little posers like you. I've been running and
fixing propane equipment for years. I take precautions, but I'm not
scared of it like you are. It's very common equipment among us
off-gridders, with years of worry free performance. If you value scott's
opinion so much, why did you mark his post as being stupid? Whatever,
you aren't worth the trouble. bbye now.

Been working on propane heaters for many years here too... big deal.
You do know that years of experience doesn't qualify as QUALITY service?

Did I say I was AFRAID of them? No

Did I say they produce CO? Yes

Did I say that using an UNVENTED heater in a home is stupid? Yes

What don't you understand?

 

[Guest]

I think you need to re-read my post, KJ.



We often come across units producing lethal levels of CO. The last
one was last week. 2000ppm, not air free. Couldn't get the meter out
of the vent quick enough. We replaced the unit.

I'll stand by my statement that normal levels are quite low for
properly operating equipment. The sky's the limit otherwise.


Say what? Ken, did you even read what I posted? If so, you'll note
that I said if it's UL approved it CAN'T even display levels below
70ppm.

Slow down there, buddy.

It's all good.

I just didn't want people to think those "piece of shit" CO detectors they
purchase in chain stores are going to save their life.

It's sad that the good ones are not the ones in everyones home.

 

[[email protected]]

Is your CO detector UL listed? If so, it CAN NOT display any notice
of CO until it's at 70ppm for at least 4 hours...

Where did you hear that? I seem to recall the regs require a CO detector to
make an alarm after certain maximum times at certain CO concentrations,
and there was nothing that would prohibit displaying the actual CO conc,
even if it was below alarm level.

Nick

 

[[email protected]]

... I said if it's UL approved it CAN'T even display levels below 70ppm.

I think you said OSHA. Did you mean UL? My UL-approved Nighthawk detector
usually displays 0 ppm. Sometimes 9, sometimes 13, if I accidentally put
some red hot woodstove ashes in the ash can...

Nick

 

[Guest]

Tell that to the 50 million gas range users and the
gas company service men that check them anytime the
gas has been shut off and they won't turn the meter on
until they can get in the house and check all the appliances.

More BULLSHIT.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

You're simply wrong on this. CO is a normal product of the combustion
of any fossil fuel. The normal levels are quite low for equipment
that's running properly.

Is your CO detector UL listed? If so, it CAN NOT display any notice
of CO until it's at 70ppm for at least 4 hours. OSHA 8 hour weighted
average is only 50ppm. EPA recommends CO in residences be no more
than 9ppm.

My Nighthawk is UL listed.
CO is NOT a normal product of complete combustion. Catalytic heaters
are extremely effective and are generally not vented.

The danger of oxygen depletion in a sealed room is significantly
greater than the danger of CO poisoning from a catalytic heater.

Tests were done with a i lb propane bottle on a catalytic heater in a
100 cu ft sealed room. Run time was 6.5 hours. At the end of the test,
oxygen had been depleted from 20.9% to 8.8%, and CO levels were
67-109ppm.
Given a 6.5 hour exposure, the CO levels were deemed not to be a
threat to a healthy adult, but the danger of hypoxia due to oxygen
depletion was serious.

A reasonable air exchange would make this risk negligible, and would
reduce the already "safe" CO level to about 1/100, (air exchange of
aprox 13 cu ft per hour would reduce co by 30%, 26 cu ft/hr by 66%,
etc)

 

[Guest]

My Nighthawk is UL listed.
CO is NOT a normal product of complete combustion. Catalytic heaters
are extremely effective and are generally not vented.

The danger of oxygen depletion in a sealed room is significantly
greater than the danger of CO poisoning from a catalytic heater.

Tests were done with a i lb propane bottle on a catalytic heater in a
100 cu ft sealed room. Run time was 6.5 hours. At the end of the test,
oxygen had been depleted from 20.9% to 8.8%, and CO levels were
67-109ppm.

I'll take my VENTED appliance... it leaves 0 parts of carbon monoxide in my
home.

 

[clare at snyder.on.ca]

I'll take my VENTED appliance... it leaves 0 parts of carbon monoxide in my
home.

Untill a squirrel dies in the vent from co poisoning?