Need to replace Electric Baseboard Heating Units & Replacement Windows

[Mike]

Hi, I live in a 70 y/o EOG rowhouse with southern & western exposure located
in Baltimore, MD.
The house has electric baseboard heating and window air conditioners.
Utilities were recently deregulated
and I believe I need to install a more efficient heating unit. Might as
well install central air at the same time.

I understand there are new high efficiency units that can save a bundle in
utility costs but they need to installed by
a crew that's trained to install them otherwise the are less effcient than
the other systems.

Recommendations for HVAC companies are also needed.

Any recommendations for highly effcient replacement windows at a resonalble
cost?
(will chck consumers union website)

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Guest]

Hi, I live in a 70 y/o EOG rowhouse with southern & western exposure located
in Baltimore, MD.
The house has electric baseboard heating and window air conditioners.
Utilities were recently deregulated
and I believe I need to install a more efficient heating unit. Might as
well install central air at the same time.

I understand there are new high efficiency units that can save a bundle in
utility costs but they need to installed by
a crew that's trained to install them otherwise the are less effcient than
the other systems.

Recommendations for HVAC companies are also needed.

Any recommendations for highly effcient replacement windows at a resonalble
cost?
(will chck consumers union website)

Thanks,

Mike

Depending on your local utility rates, you might want to install Heat Pumps.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

Depending on your local utility rates, you might want to install Heat Pumps.

He's in Baltimore.

http://www.usepropane.com/esc/

--

 

[Guest]

bundle

He's in Baltimore.

http://www.usepropane.com/esc/

But the real question is, what is his utility rates?

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

But the real question is, what is his utility rates?

He has to enter that ( kwh ) for himself....varies considerably depending on
your location...pretty sure IM at $.058/ kwh last I checked--"cheap
hydro"...


Anyways, run the program twice, first using baseboard heat then run through
it a second time using heat pump....

Actual value entered for propane isnt important, ( unless someone is using,
or considereing converting to it)...but suggest just use same cost / gal
value both times...

===

IIRC my brother is getting nailed at 3 ~bux /gallon--Seattle,Wa
area.--understandably, I've disabled the gas portion of his furnace just
recently...

Still need to log further info, but appears after a couple weeks worth of
"intelligent adaptive recovery" and what with his night temps being ~ 25 and
with 45 daytime told me yesterday he might occasionally fall short by a
couple degrees tops at the morning recovery period--so guessing at least
someone actually did an accurate heat load analysis upon initial install.

Like I say, outdoors reset stat is to be permanently installed soon--which
brings out the big guns only on as-needed basis.

===

FWIW, still think the Taystat 103 is a sucky system--esp where total lockout
occurs--but still is absolutely needed where you have HP coils downstream in
the airflow from the gas HX.

Not rocket science, still will probly eventually put up a link to the
schemtic with crossed out connections etc.

Meanwhile, Joseph and Pat can also more than likely assist if you happen to
find yourself with a customer that's wanting to ramp down on gas usage,
perhaps with the attendant addition / installation of of larger capacity
heat pump system.

IIRC, your in the corn belt--then if so pay close attention to a/c
mode...dehumidifican problems and short cycling definately can be a problem
where yuo have oversized a heat pump for to deal primarily with the heating
load.

--

 

[Guest]

He has to enter that ( kwh ) for himself....varies considerably depending on
your location...pretty sure IM at $.058/ kwh last I checked--"cheap
hydro"...

True... 6 cents/kwh is pretty darn cheap!

IIRC my brother is getting nailed at 3 ~bux /gallon--Seattle,Wa
OooooOoooooOooooooUCH!!!!!!!!

IIRC, your in the corn belt--then if so pay close attention to a/c
mode...dehumidifican problems and short cycling definately can be a problem
where yuo have oversized a heat pump for to deal primarily with the heating
load.

That's why one should size for the cooling system.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

depending

True... 6 cents/kwh is pretty darn cheap!


That's why one should size for the cooling system.

Apparently, cost structure was more favorable towards propane near to a
decade ago--when the sys was initially installed....main benefit to having
the heat pump being the luxury of having cooling...

Still makes no sense--if the gas is cheaper then just kill the HP on heating
altogheter.

Diferent situation in the machine shop here though, I have tools that
actually produce a significant heat load--nice during winter but becomes a
burden during summertime.

---

 

[Guest]

Apparently, cost structure was more favorable towards propane near to a
decade ago--when the sys was initially installed....main benefit to having
the heat pump being the luxury of having cooling...

Still makes no sense--if the gas is cheaper then just kill the HP on heating
altogheter.

LP and Nat used to be cheap fuels. But as time goes by, they continue to
rise dramatically while the electric costs have had slight increases.

With new product designs and affiances, today a heat pump can often save you
a significantly large amount of money in operational costs.

I have designed a spreadsheet to show my clients how much they can save (or
spend) with varying heat sources. They don't understand it, till they see
the actual numbers.

Many people are switching to corn burners. But with the evolution of ethanol
being used for automotive purposes, the costs of corn is increasing. So this
only raises their heating bills. Making the heat pump look better once
again.

One thing is constant, and that is, that things are always changing.
Something that is effective today may not be tomorrow.

 

[Jeffrey Lebowski]

LP and Nat used to be cheap fuels. But as time goes by, they continue to
rise dramatically while the electric costs have had slight increases.

With new product designs and affiances, today a heat pump can often save you
a significantly large amount of money in operational costs.

I woud kil the crossposteing but im too drunkat present....besides, the
topic at least fits.

Ya want cheep then go geothermal, closed or even open loop--here we have
well-water-a- plenty-

Cmes outa the ground at ~51 deg F--I just pump and dump.....over onto the
freeway right-of-way it goes.

I have designed a spreadsheet to show my clients how much they can save (or
spend) with varying heat sources. They don't understand it, till they see
the actual numbers.

Then if it sells, great....so long as it saves long-term.

Many people are switching to corn burners. But with the evolution of ethanol
being used for automotive purposes, the costs of corn is increasing. So this
only raises their heating bills. Making the heat pump look better once
again.

Yes, esp here where electric rates have remained fairly stable.

One thing is constant, and that is, that things are always changing.
Something that is effective today may not be tomorrow.

Well the one thing that is constant--if you burning any hydrocarbon fuel
then it depletes fossil reserves, as well as contributing to escalation of
co co2 into the atmosphere.

Suggest then plant some trees--it's the only thing available to Joe Sixpak
that effectively re-sequesters the carbon by-products back into the soil.

--

 

[Mike]

LP and Nat used to be cheap fuels. But as time goes by, they continue to
rise dramatically while the electric costs have had slight increases.

With new product designs and affiances, today a heat pump can often save
you
a significantly large amount of money in operational costs.

I have designed a spreadsheet to show my clients how much they can save
(or
spend) with varying heat sources. They don't understand it, till they see
the actual numbers.

Many people are switching to corn burners. But with the evolution of
ethanol
being used for automotive purposes, the costs of corn is increasing. So
this
only raises their heating bills. Making the heat pump look better once
again.

One thing is constant, and that is, that things are always changing.
Something that is effective today may not be tomorrow.

You bring up good ponts. Can I get a copy of your spreadsheet?

 

[Guest]

$24.90 would be about 400 KWH here, and that
could produce more than 1.2 million BTU.


Out of curiosity I checked the price for propane
17 pound bottle refills at Lowes, and it was $18, that
is a lot more than $2.10 a gallon, isn't it.

But maybe in bulk it is cheaper.

Bulk is definately cheaper than having a 20 lb tank filled.

The temperature here fell through -10 C
during daylight here today, and that could mean
life threatening temperatures without backup heat,
regardless of what the fuel is, furnaces and anything
else can fail even if there is plenty of fuel.

The high tech furnaces are a threat, even
if they are supposed to be more efficient, fuel cost
is not as important as avoiding unsafe temperatures.

Joe Fischer

"high tech furnaces are a threat"???????????

How do you come up with that horseshit?

 

[Steve Cothran]

For years the fuel of choice in a rural setting was propane. It was
70-90 cents/gal. Now it is 2.10/gal and btu for btu yielded you can
heat with low-tech electric resistance heat for less money.

1 Million BTU Electricity = $24.90 (TN)

1 Million BTU Propane (80% Furnace)=$28.46

 

[Steve Spence]

For years the fuel of choice in a rural setting was propane. It was
70-90 cents/gal. Now it is 2.10/gal and btu for btu yielded you can
heat with low-tech electric resistance heat for less money.

1 Million BTU Electricity = $24.90 (TN)

1 Million BTU Propane (80% Furnace)=$28.46

1 Million BTU = 293 kWh * $0.15 (NY) = $43.95

Propane wins. Plus, when the power goes out, propane still runs, if I
had electric, I freeze to death.

 

[Guest]

1 Million BTU = 293 kWh * $0.15 (NY) = $43.95

Propane wins. Plus, when the power goes out, propane still runs, if I
had electric, I freeze to death.

What's the cost on a gal of LP up there?

 

[Steve Spence]

What's the cost on a gal of LP up there?

Last fill up was $2.20/gallon.

100 gallon minimum.

 

[Tekkie®]

Mike posted for all of us...

EOG rowhouse

What is EOG rowhouse? End of Grid? Huh?

 

[Steve Cothran]

1 Million BTU = 293 kWh * $0.15 (NY) = $43.95

Propane wins. Plus, when the power goes out, propane still runs, if I
had electric, I freeze to death.

Ouch. Our electic rate here is ~0.085/kwh depending on usage. Don't
know how long that will last, though.

 

[Mike]

Mike posted for all of us...

What is EOG rowhouse? End of Grid? Huh?

eeerrrr.... aahhhhh.. . . . end of group.

 

[Guest]

Last fill up was $2.20/gallon.

100 gallon minimum.

Not to bad then, I figured with your electric cost that it would have been
higher than that.

 

[Guest]

Ask the, about a million, people who lost power
for a week or more in the plains and west coast.

It would help if each one were installed with a
big warning sign "Be sure to have a backup heating
system if the power goes off".

I seriously doubt if one out of a thousand
homes have an emergency generator, and even
some that do could not isolate the furnace circuit
and run it.

But I am prejudiced, I don't like the noise
of the small duct forced air.

Ok then,

With most modern every day piece of heating equipment... which one do you
recommend, that doesn't require ELECTRIC to operate?

Or are we to go back to the days of Gas Fired SPACE heaters???