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need spring-energy-storage mechanism

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by [email protected], May 29, 2007.

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  1. default

    default Guest


    More likely the converse.
     

  2. That will take a LOT of moles! ;-)


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  3. Guest

    It's a standard physics formula.
    Actual calc' from a 1910 motor car design hanbook. Also
    http://zebu.uoregon.edu/2001/ph162/l8.html is one of the few sites
    that bothers to do some sums.
    There's also a number of really interesting research project sites
    investigating details of materials, containments, bearings, hoop
    stresses etc.
    First interest in these things came from a 2 (1 ton each!), flywheel,
    experimental, monorail railway system in a 1912 science book (UK).
     
  4. John S.

    John S. Guest

    Yes, I realize that some newsgroup participants behave as though they
    were born in a barn. Thank yous are not being looked for, but if
    someone poses a technical question, I think that most of us living in
    civil society would expect some response about whether the information
    was useful.

    Apparently expectations of behaviour and common courtesy are somewhat
    lower Altus OK that the rest of the US.
    If you will take the time to go back and read the original posters
    message it was so poorly written and imprecise that my first
    impression was this guy is just bored and composing something that
    will generate some responses. Looking for attention as many trolls
    are. That he failed to recognize any of the posts only served to
    affirm that initial conclusion.
     
  5. And what's a man-hour of energy?

    Robert
     
  6. jim

    jim Guest

    Ha ha ha, one's own amusement and education? You mean there might not be
    a mountain? No profitable sale of a commodity if only the transportation
    can be worked out? Wait I suppose that also means the OP won't be making
    a million dollars and coming back to share the wealth with all those who
    provided assistance? Man what a disappointment.

    -jim
     
  7. Guest

    A more user friendly version of 0.05kWh :)
     
  8. Guest

    If you will take the time to go back and read the original posters

    that's your view. My view is that I was not disclosing the
    information which would enable someone else to come into my desired
    niche.


    I requested information about spring storage. There was a flood of
    posts about ropes, pulleys, and etc that couldn't possibly work in the
    geo setting. Hey, if a funicular or a tramway was indicated, there are
    pro's out there who will build them for me. And not difficult to find,
    either.

    There was also a stream of posts about incomprehensible nonsense.

    I thought I was being polite, in not consuming bandwidth and
    archive resources, to respond to not-on-point nonsense.


    I'm not complaining; for free I don't expect to get much valuable
    information. Usenet is the Tragedy of the Commons writ large. But as
    Warren Buffet observed, there's still money to be made occassionally
    by picking nickels up off the streets.
     
  9. Guest

    Anyone that has ever tensioned a garage door spring, intended to
    very excellent point. one which I figured out after some
    googleing, and mentioned in the new thread. Your example is much more
    intuitively clear and obvious. Kudos for that.


    well, that's what it is. videlicet, people can make
    substitutions for it. and now are, at a price that's lower than
    what I can produce mine for, unless i can do it EXTREMELY cheaply.


    is that high-tech to you? Eaton/Peterbilt does use hydraulic/
    pneumatic storage of regenerated-braking-energy, RIGHT NOW for
    dumptrucks. Maybe that's high tech, maybe not. And I bet if I threw
    enough money to Eaton, they'd come up with a scaled version that was
    suitable to me. Want to invest? You'll get your full disclosure when
    you sign the check.





    If I had, how would it help anyone identify the desired spring-
    storage mechanism?






    Of course, because the commodity probably will remain slightly
    valuable forever. Eventually, maybe I'll stumble across a cost-
    effective transportation. If it was HIGHLY valuable, it would justify
    the costs of asking people who know what they're talking about.


    I think you are not well plugged into economic realities. Silver is
    more valuable than all but 3-4 other widely traded metals. yet
    there's not more than 2-3 places in the whole world where it's value-
    density is sufficient to justify the cost of digging it out of the
    ground FOR ITSELF. Silver is essentially a lucky byproduct, > 99%
    of the time.


    Since the advent of Ebay, gigantic new trading markets have opened up
    for things that weren't previously worth the costs of trading. Why
    are you acting so shocked that I've stumbled across a similar paradigm?
     
  10. Guest

  11. $$ Where is spring energy POTENTiAL "stored"?
    $$ (Dances with dimwits)
    $$ Where is spring or fly-wheel POTENTiAL energy "stored"?

    Subject: Re: is spacetime curvature the source of inertia?
    Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:51:53 -0230
    From: brian a m stuckless <>
    Newsgroups:
    sci.physics.relativity, sci.philosophy.tech, sci.math,
    sci.astro, bit.org
    References:
    1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10


    $$ [Where spring, fly-wheel and bullet potential energy is "stored"].
    $$ [Re: is spacetime curvature spring energy the source of inertia?].
     
  12. The thing I don't think I recall hearing is weight or volume per load.
    Your viable options could change quite a bit with variations in those.

    Anyhow, since you had initially proposed a bicycle, I'd say you'd be
    hard-pressed to improve on the cost-efficiency of a moped. Taking the
    Eaton/Peterbilt approach, if you were able to drive your per-trip
    operational cost down to $.05 by virtue of, say, $100K in development
    costs, it would take a long time to amortize that start-up cost.

    Do you have a business plan so you know your break-even point?
     
  13. me

    me Guest

    Here's a freebie for you. If your commodity is higher up and you want to transpoert it down you already
    have stored energy for "free". Throw/roll/slide it downhill....
     
  14. Guest

    You could have answered 95% of the questions without doing that.

    Read this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
    Spring storage couldn't possibly work either. The energy density
    isn't good enough, and if it was you would have a potential bomb.
    You are an idiot who is so narrow minded that you won't accept any
    solution other than the one you half-baked yourself.

    Read this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
    Read this: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
    Other people get good answers because they ask good questions.
    You wrote a question that sucks and then ignore all requests for
    clarification. You REALLY need to read the following!

    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
    http://www.montebello.k12.ca.us/Resources/Roadmap/map07.html

    In the killfile you go:

    *PLONK*
     
  15. Guest

  16. default

    default Guest

    Well, in all honesty, I wasn't entirely ruling out springs - just not
    the way you envision them, and not for climbing mountains.

    My own pet idea - take a "gas spring" - those things used to hold the
    50 pound hatch on hatch back cars up? They are light in weight and
    for a relatively small travel distance of the piston, have enormous
    weight holding potential. Some with hundreds of pounds. Now take
    that and mate it to something like a brake drum on a bicycle (bicycles
    don't use brake drums but could). The rider actuates the brake and
    the tendency is for the drum to want to grab the wheel and rotate
    itself, shoes and all. Now that small movement (of say 4-6") could be
    used to compress the spring. Then, when the brake is released, the
    shoes hold the drum for a little while as the compressed spring
    transfers its energy back to the wheel to get you started rolling
    again. (versus having to stand on the pedals - just assists in stop
    and go conditions and just to kick it into motion). All mechanical
    and it would take learning some new habits to use - but could be
    really useful in the city.
    Yeah it would be high tech for me. A practical, lightweight enough
    for a bicycle, with human power? A dump truck I can see hauling
    around a high pressure accumulator or reservoir - a bicycle less so.

    A bicycle rider can only supply about 100 watts of power to the pedals
    for a short period of time 50-75 may be more reasonable. Now how does
    one capture and store the small amount of energy, converting from
    torsion to pressure or amp hours and back again and do it in something
    that has to remain very light if a human is expected to provide the
    energy input? I'm sure it will be done . . . someday. When it comes
    to bicycles, weight is everything.
    Well, there are always more than one way to solve any problem. With
    all the facts in evidence, other solutions may seem obvious. By
    limiting the information, you narrow the scope of solutions. The
    desired spring storage mechanism was a non-starter from the get-go.

    Some clever people get on these newsgroups and solving problems in
    novel and neat synergistic ways is often rewarding - we all learn
    something.
    But it wouldn't hurt to describe the terrain/topography in detail.
    Type of road, type of grades encountered, length, other factors like
    private or public access. Condition of valuable mineral or plant -
    liquid, solid, density, or other factors like friability, solubility
    that may be important to preserving its usefulness. For instance if
    it is nearly liquid or easily soluble and miscible in water it may be
    dissolved and piped down and recovered - depending on distance and
    cost of plumbing etc..

    Always look for the easy solution first - then embellish it if
    warranted.
    I get the feeling that silver isn't at issue. Here in the US they do
    or did a lot of mining for copper up near Idaho and Montana. Zinc,
    lead, and silver are some of the byproducts. I camped along the "Lead
    Creek" near DeBorgia Montana and learned all about silver, or more
    correctly, copper. I was bumming around on a motorcycle and getting a
    real education.
    I'm not "shocked." The secrecy and lack of information and hit and
    run style suggested someone trolling Usenet, not an actual real world
    application for design.
     
  17. Trevor Jones

    Trevor Jones Guest

    The reality you seem unwilling to accept, is that physics does not
    scale worth a shit.

    Recovering a small amount of energy from slowing down a multi ton load
    in a dump truck costs a fraction of the dump trucks weight and overall
    cost. The dump trucks also have a big motherin' diesel engine to haul
    their load (and the regen braking system) back up to speed. I have no
    doubt that the payback period on the regen braking system on a dump
    truck is measured in years, too.

    Put a system on a bicycle, and you will not ever get back the energy
    it takes to haul it around, nor will you recover the costs of purchase
    or development.

    I get the distinct feeling that you are a dreamer that is unwilling to
    accept that there are a few real flaws in your whole line of investigation.

    Throw money at Eaton. They will laugh all the way to the bank with it.
    Get a granny gear on your bike too. You are going to need it to haul the
    dead weight back up the hill.

    Cheers
    Trevor Jones
     
  18. Edward Green

    Edward Green Guest

    What are the economics of taking a blimp up and down a mountain?

    Now that I think of this, the question seems moot: if the economic
    good is at the top of a mountain, it should be easy to get it down:
    one only needs a method to control free-fall. If useable amounts of
    power can be harvested, that's a side benefit. There's no energy cost
    in lowering your commodity, the economics is in the start up and
    maintenance costs.
     
  19. Edward Green

    Edward Green Guest

    I've injected unanaesthetized cats with fluids (vet orders, not animal
    cruelty).

    Same method of holding down cat in sink, with helper, could no doubt
    be applied to toast application.
     
  20. John S.

    John S. Guest

    You are concerened about somone coming in on a low volume, low value
    product that has significant transportation costs from the top of a
    mointain? Assuming your description is anywhere close to reality, I
    can only assume you are hallucinating. From your description you
    would have to pay someone to horn in. Unless of course you are really
    talking about trying to transport product from your marijuna or poppy
    patch.


    Anyone with a half an ounce of mechanical sense would realize that a
    spring would not contain nearly enough energy to make it worthwhile.
    Especially considering the substantial cosrts involved. And you know
    that.

    That pretty much is the information you originally supplied.
    Bullshit. Your posts make me think you just crank out half-baked posts
    in the hopes of attracting attention.
    Are you writing for self appreciation?
    And I'm sure Warren Buffet has thoughts about adults who continue to
    look for the adolescent
    pleasure of being the center of attention no matter how it is
    obtained.
     
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