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need schematic or pinout for Ungar 9900 soldering station. Wannause it on a Pace Iron.

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by mike, Mar 23, 2013.

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  1. mike

    mike Guest

    I have a Pace tweezer soldering iron. 21V
    I have an Ungar 9900AS power unit. 24V
    I'd like to mate them.
    The 6-pin round connector plugs in...I'm afraid to turn it on.
    I found some pinout info on Pace systems,
    but nothing on the Ungar.

    A schematic or pinout info would save me reverse engineering the
    thing.

    Thanks, mike
     
  2. mike

    mike Guest

    Typical Ungar variable temp iron has six-pin connector with
    typically 5 used.
    Turns out that the temp sensor resistance is incompatible.
    Without a schematic, it's just too much work to redesign it.
     
  3. mike

    mike Guest

    Can't speak for yours, but my Ungar 9900AS uses two wires for the heater,
    two for the temperature sensor and a safety ground.
    As does the Pace SensaTemp II tweezer.
    Problem is that the Pace us 100 ohm sensor.
    The Ungar changes duty factor over the range from about
    10K to 5K, so completely different sensor technology.

    If I could find a schematic for the Ungar, I'd hack it to work
    with the Pace. Just not sufficiently motivated to reverse engineer
    the whole thing.
     
  4. mike

    mike Guest

    Very interesting.

    9900 AS Anti-Static Electronic Soldering System
    UTCUTC UTC
    SERIESSERIES SERIES
    SOLDERING SYSTEMS
    This premium, ESD-safe, modular system meets the full range of
    electronic soldering applications by
    means of four 24V-AC quick-connect micro and macro soldering irons.
    Electronically controlled, variable temperature.
    System meets military specifications: DOD-STD-2000- 1B, WS-6536E and
    MIL-S-45734E.
    Temperature range 450
    o
    F to 850
    o
    F.
    Dimensions 3.33"H x 3.80" W x 7.00"D weight 3 lbs.
    120V-AC, 6 Hz., 3-wire grounded. UL Listed.
    Two year limited warranty on power base.

    Temperature variation less than ++ +10 oF
    ______________________________________________________

    I don't have the ungar iron, just the power unit,
    but I remain skeptical.

    So, they adjust the power, not the temperature...but the dial is
    calibrated in temperature and spec'd within 10 F.

    What I did was put a variable resistor on the sense pins.
    The duty factor of the power source was a strong function
    of the external resistor and only minimally affected by the
    setting of the temperature slider.
    I can imagine that there's a calibration pot that normalizes
    the variation in sensor resistance between units.

    It's hard to imagine that they have all that circuitry to implement
    a light dimmer.

    The pace units actually measure temperature, so it stays constant
    under varying loads.
    Weller EC3001 works the same way. Draws about 27W cold and ~3W at
    temperature, pretty much independent of temperature setting.
     
  5. mike

    mike Guest

    Thanks for the info. The pinout is consistent with my experiments.
    Sure wish I had the handpiece to look at.

    My experience has been opposite yours.
    My Weller EC3001 has active temperature feedback.
    If you stick the tip on a cold surface, the heater power goes up.
    Same for all my PACE handpieces with the 6-pin connectors.

    I have some very early 120VAC PACE desoldering handpieces that are
    controlled
    power instead of controlled temperature and run
    off a "light dimmer" in the base unit without temperature feedback.

    The Weller 3-pin connector units like the TC201/TC202 have constant
    heater power that's interrupted by the "magnastat" attached to the
    tip reaching its curie temperature. It's a bang-bang control system
    with relatively long on/off times.
     
  6. mike

    mike Guest

    I was gonna modify the socket. I have other places to plug the iron.
    Well...hate to shatter your confidence.
    The info is here: www.paceworldwide.com/sites/default/files/TT-65.pdf
    it includes a schematic showing the sensor.

    Here's the troubleshooting chart for the PACE TT-65 handpiece:
    Was a PDF chart that got copied as text, but you can see the
    4 headers:
    SYMPTOM CHECKOUT PROCEDURE CAUSE SOLUTION
    No heat
    Check resistance - Pin 2 to
    Pin 5. Resistance should
    be 10 ohms.
    If not - -Open Heater

    ______________Here's the relevant part
    Handpiece
    overheating
    Check resistance - Pin 3 to
    Pin 6. Resistance should
    be 110 ohms.
    If circuit
    reads less than 105 ohms - -Shorted Sensor
    ____________End of relevant part.
    I believe that you have experience that leads you to a conclusion
    that is incorrect for the systems I have.
    Your conclusion seems to be contrary to all my experience. I fail
    to understand how power input can change with heat load
    without sensing something.

    I know of three ways in use to have temperature control with two
    active wires (plus safety/static ground).
    I have used irons using all three methods.

    1)put ALL the electronic controls in the handpiece.
    2)the weller magnastat that uses a thermally activated switch in the
    tip.
    3)the Metcal system that pumps RF down the cable and uses a property
    of material in the head to absorb the RF and heat only when below
    the transition temperature of the tip.

    This article describes various systems.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldering_iron
    I won't, because I haven't heard a rational explanation.
    Can you describe the mechanism that allows
    the power input to change based on heat flow without sensing
    something.
    Finding a calibration pot in the plug doesn't demonstrate that a sensor
    does not exist.

    Buy a used Ungar soldering iron handpiece with the same 6-pin
    You don't need an extra one. Just unplug one and take a meter to it.
    The sensor in my Weller EC1301 sensor measures 27 ohms cold and about
    43 ohms at 700F.
    The only adjustable power supply that I own with the UNGAR name
    is the aforementioned 9900AS. It has WAY MORE circuitry than
    would be required for open-loop power control (light dimmer style).
    The number and type of integrated circuits is consistent with
    the schematics for the PACE temperature control systems.
    Not having a handpiece or schematic, I can't prove it. I can only
    demonstrate
    that the power out is dependent on the value of a resistor plugged
    into the socket...assumed to be the sensor. It appears that the
    type of sensor varies much more with temperature (in the 5K to 10K
    region) than the sensor
    used by the PACE or Weller EC series.

    Are we having fun yet?
     
  7. Leif Neland

    Leif Neland Guest

    Wild_Bill formulerede Wednesday:
    I'm not arguing if the particular soldering iron has a sensor or not.

    But, as resistance (often) is inversely related to temperature,
    wouldn't it be possible to measure the current and voltage, and use
    this to keep the temperature (somewhat) constant?

    Leif
     
  8. Leif Neland

    Leif Neland Guest

    Følgende er skrevet af Leif Neland:
    Note to self: You may compose answers as you read along the message
    thread, but don't send until all messages are read, to avoid duplicates
    :)
     
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