On Mon, 8 Sep 2003 01:21:15 -0400, "Robert L. Bass"
Sometimes, your comments are a little off base...
So far so good.
Whoops! Wrong. If the building is less than a certain size (varies from
state to state) and the occupancy is not "place of assembly" (theater,
church, etc.) the owner or his employees can DIY just about anywhere.
Whether he *should* do a commercial fire alarm is another matter.
While it's true that laws vary from state to state, they also vary in
each individual jurisdiction. However, there are far more occupancy
classifications than just a "place of assembly" that require a fire
alarm system be installed. Most jurisdictions require that if a
system is installed, it be installed per building codes by someone
licensed to do the work.
Sort of right. UL lists. They don't approve anything.
I said UL Listed, FM APPROVED.
Half right. Residential alarm panels are not acceptable where a commercial
FACP is required.
Read the first Section of NFPA 72. Any commercial fire alarm device
must be Listed for use in a commercial fire alarm.
Where the system is not required a combination burg/fire
panel will frequently pass muster with the inspector (whose word is for all
intents and purposes the final arbiter of what meets code). This is a gray
area where it is definitely best to consult the local "authority having
jurisdiction" (the "AHJ" -- usually a fire marshal or building inspector)
before proceeding.
Yes, the AHJ has the final say. However, they normally enforce the
code as written. Doing less makes them liable. Many jursidictions
require a plan submittal and approval before procedding with a fire
alarm system.
As to "devices" some detectors used in residential applications are OK for
commercial fire as well.
Only if they are listed for such use.
esidential moke detectors are usually
photoelectric types. For commercial apps it's usually best to use
ionization detectors.
It depends on the application. While it's true that each type of
detector is best suited to a unique envirornment, a blanket statement
that pe type smokes not be used in commercial applications is
irresponsible.
Rate-of-rise and fixed temperature heat sensors are
the same for both apps.Pull stations are the same though not many people
install them in homes.
Again, both should be Listed for their intended purpose.
If the inspector wants a commercial fire alarm control panel (FACP) you can
use a system like the Napco MA-3000. This is a multi-partition, combination
burglary and commercial fire alarm control panel. There is an add-on board
for dual line fire reporting if the system is to be monitored. The board
also supplies a supervised NAC ("notification appliance circuit" is alarm
ese for the DC output to run strobe / horns when the fire alarm rings).
The dual line DACT you mentioned is one way to meet the requirement of
commercial fire alarm communication. Residential panels do not have
this capability, and therefore, won't meet NFPA-72 code.
This is true. However, if the needs are not too complex it can be
accomplished by a DIYer with a bit of patience and a modicum of tool skills.
I wouldn't suggest that most DIYers take on a Northern Computers
installation but controlling a dozen doors with mag locks or powered strikes
isn't all that rough. The installation can be handled by a local locksmith
or a skilled maintenance man. The hassle with most of these systems is
programming.
Depending on you skill, installing a dozen maglocks or stikes may be
akin to rebuilding the motor of a Ferrari racecar. Given the proper
tools and knowledge, its a piece of cake. Screw something up, and it
could be expensive to fix.
However, there are many brands which are sold to distributors and then to
dealers. The manufacturers in those situations neither know nor care who
does the work as long as the products are moving and they're not getting
tech support headaches. That's the sticky part. To DIY this stuff you have
to be willing to spend a little time learning the manuals. The manuals can
be cryptic at times. This is definitely not a job for a casual handyman.
OTOH, it can be done (usually at significant savings) if you want to learn
it.
Yes, sold to dealers, not the end use. Manufacturers limit what's
availble to distributors. Northern, whom you seem to like, will not
sell their ESG line through distributors. This limits unqualified
dealers and online resellers to the lower end products.
That's true. There are also those of us who will try to dissuade a DIYer
from taking on a task that he doesn't seem able to handle. I try to
determine something of the DIYer's knowledge and skills along with the scope
of the project. This helps me to select a system that will meet his needs
without being too difficult for him to handle.
For residential and simple small business systems, the concept is
probably okay. Complex commercial applications are probably best left
to a intregrator. The original post falls somewhere in between.
If one of the local dealers is willing to do that it can be very handy for
the DIYer. The reason companies like mine thrive is that there are very few
alarm companies around that will sell parts without a 36- to 60-month
monitoring contract.
I will.
Yeah, sure. You might also meet Elvis. :^)
I just checked a few of your prices online. I randomly clicked on a
few items that you carry, and on each one your price was higher. Of
course, you have access to a lot of items that I won't sell, i.e. the
whole ADI catalog. However, for the stuff that I do have available,
you may be suprised at what economies of scale do for my pricing..
Before finding out if the local AHJ will even accept a combination burg/fire
panel? Shame on you! For this kind of project the OP's first stop needs to
be the building inspector's office. Before you can start to choose the
system you must first determine the requirements.
Given as an example. The above mentioned panel meets NFPA
requirements, and should past muster with most AHJ's. You're right,
however. Some may require a separate FA panel.
Correct. Sentrol contacts are excellent. I sell every model they make
online.
Dual-tech detectors are good. If the warehouse or office has long corridors
it may also be worth considering a few discretely mounted IR beams.
Properly installed in appropriate locations these can be cost effective and
often less prone to false alarms than "motion" detection. IR beams are not
for every site though. I'd want to look at a floor plan drawing to make
more definitive suggestions.
True. Access control systems are also affected by the fire code. Talk
about your plans with the fire marshal before you order anything.
Access systems are specifically affected by NFPA 101. Free egress
through fire doors is the primary concern.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. A lot depends on the number of doors, required
degree of flexibility and number of users.
Access control integrated into a IDS control panel id another option.
However, it isn't as flexible and isn't as easy to use as a PC based
system.
You can use prox cards, keytags, wireless transmitters, keypads, keypads,
fingerprint readers, retina scanners, etc. for input devices.
The same is true of both types.
You can link an output from
this system to open an automatic overhead door or a gate. Northern
Computer's WinPak system is the best product on the market for the
money.
www.nciaccess.com
Northern Computers' stuff is indeed excellent. It's available to DIYers if
they want to tackle the job but it's not simple stuff. Only some primates
can handle it. :^) [inside joke]
Let me know you location, and I'll put you in contact with someone
who can get an equipment-only price together for you.
I can do that wherever the gentleman is. I sell almost every brand you
mentioned.
With 220 offices in North America, I can also do that. I just need to
know who to call.
J.
