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Need help with problem diagnostic

Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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Hello everyone, I am trying to find out a problem with my washing machine control module, but I have no multimeters nor any of the electronic know-how that most here have so I have been trying to do this by theory study alone.
Sadly I reached a dead end now where I can't still understand what is going on with the component so I am here hoping that some amazing guru will manage to find out what exactly is going on.

Details:

Washing machine released in 2005
Model: Samsung Q1044
The control panel number: MFS-Q1044-00
No history of previous problems, this was the first and only one so far.

The following video shows exactly what the problem is whenever I plug it to the wall until I unplug it:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?res...80&authkey=!AEWvVyl4Opwf-hU&ithint=video,.mp4

Pressing any button does nothing.

I have opened the machine and I found out that it had a cockroach infestation and I am assuming that one of them caused a short circuit on the PCB that blew 2 tracks because I found one all roasted near the blown tracks, as the following image shows:

http://i.imgur.com/RolEdYX.jpg

The 3 point solder there belongs to a M10LZ47 5-J (or 5-i, not sure now) which can be seen better from the view above, it's the small one screwed to the heatsink:

http://i.imgur.com/gETfuKX.jpg

I have already have the tracks repaired but still the problem persists, nothing changed.

I have also looked for any component that could be busted or show any signs of fault but none was to be found.

Buying a replacement is not an option since I already looked for it for a long time and everyone says it's not made anymore and I don't have the money to just buy a new machine and since this one was expensive at the time I would really want to get it fixed and working again.

This is a very weird problem because most of the times, for me, when an electronic component goes bad then the system simply doesn't work, period. With this one it still works, kinda, and the power goes straight to the motor for some reason as if the control module chip is runing in blank mode, like it was wiped clean during a short circuit or something like that.

If anyone wants better pictures or more details I will gladly post them. I really hope someone here can help me out, I am out of options and washing by hand during winter has been quite harsh.
 
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tryppyr

Oct 22, 2013
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First suggestion would be to post images of the board after cleaning both sides. Seeing the smoky, bug poop covered board is interesting, but I'm betting the experts would rather see the traces and be able to read the writing on the board.

I'm also curious about whether you've tested any of the components.
 

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Dec 24, 2013
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Hi, tryppyr, here are the images that you suggested:

The more cleaned damaged area: http://i.imgur.com/ggcEloN.jpg

The tracks repaired: http://i.imgur.com/dbCtPKG.jpg

The capacitor replacement: http://i.imgur.com/MH6U5Ij.jpg

The previous capacitor was a SMD 104

These are the last few I had taken before, I will take tomorrow 4 complete shots of the 2 frontal views and back views of both boards. Can't do it now because it's too late to make noise.

Anything else needed and I'll gladly post.

About the testing, if you mean testing with multimeters and such I already explained that I do not possess the testing tools nor the knowledge to use them. The only test I have done was the one you can see in the video: Plug it to the wall and unplug.

EDIT: Forgot to say, the motor doesn't run when the door is open.
 
Last edited:

davenn

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Sep 5, 2009
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hi,

without a mulitmeter, its going to be extremely difficult to fault find
you can buy one on eBay for $10, you really need to get one or borrow one from a friend
before we try and go any further

Dave
 
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Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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Hi, davenn, the shop that repaired the pcb tracks sell it but they will only open next year, January.

Until then I am hoping that someone might enjoy this puzzle without the aid of the multimeter and perhaps find out the problem.

I have the pcb diagrams pdf if it helps, it can be downloaded here

http://www43.zippyshare.com/v/39480794/file.html

I could not attach it because it is bigger than the limit.

The thing is the short circuit obviously caused the machine behaviour and I am trying to find out which components it might have ruined.
Somehow, even when both tracks were completely pulverized, the power was and still is being directed to the motor directly so to what I can understand there is something causing the energy to enter the PCB and going directly to the motor without passing through those two tracks, perhaps the problem lies between those and the power relay (hope this is the correct term for the connection between power supply and pcb).
 

davenn

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Sep 5, 2009
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can u upload it somewhere else please

that site is BAD!! it crashes my browser all the time

Dave
 

davenn

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without a multimeter

we cant really help as we need you to be able to make measurements and tell us the results. this would help in possibly deciding which components are faulty

Dave
 

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Dec 24, 2013
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Sorry if that website caused you problems, here is the file in a better host:

https://skydrive.live.com/redir?res...781&authkey=!AJ9lAcVGTBbZadA&ithint=file,.pdf

I have also managed to take better shots of all views (images are around 1mb):

Front panel frontal view: http://i.imgur.com/ALw0XeN.jpg

Front panel rear view: http://i.imgur.com/YeChN5Q.jpg

Back panel frontal view: http://i.imgur.com/Eem8qME.jpg

Back panel rear view: http://i.imgur.com/pVzcNHc.jpg

I am sorry for the weird views but at close range and with high quality (so others could read the texts) I could only take the complete view in 3 sections and had to morph them together into one.


I know that the multimeter will be the best way to get this diagnosed but I don't have one and I can only get one by January, never needed it before and I don't even know how to use it (the energy test values that are needed for each component and such).

I have also discovered one module for the Q1244, which is the version above mine with 1200 rpm and I am trying to find out if that module will work with my model.

I ask this because they are practically the same except for one component:

Q1044 (my own module): http://i.imgur.com/Eem8qMEh.jpg

Q1244 (notice the black relay in the middle, left of the orange relay): http://i.imgur.com/HhqosIi.jpg

By the description in one manual I found, that black relay's description is "RPM ON/OFF", all the rest is the same as far as I could tell.

I have also found that the chip (or processor) behind the display in my module has the following details:

"Q1244/1044 610
93CW44DF-68K3"

The "68K3" might be a B instead of an 8 and there are more details below those two lines but my sight is having a hard time reading it.

I have also compared the parts list for both models and, apart from aesthetic differences (one top panel is champagne and the other is white, one button is silver and the other is ivory, etc) only the modules are different. Even the motor is the same for both models.

So they have practically the same module, the same parts and even the same chip, do you think that the Q1244 module will work in my model Q1044? Because if it works I will buy it and get the machine fixed and upgraded.
 
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tryppyr

Oct 22, 2013
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Advance warning: This isn't likely to be helpful. ;)

I stared a while at the images and have a question. On the back side of the board there's something that appears to be a surface mounted diode in the region of Relay 7 (see below). It looks funny to me in the images, but it is in shadow so it's hard for me to tell. You're able to look right at it. Does it look funny to you?
 

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Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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I have also noticed the same because the other relay (relay 6) has only 4 soldering points and this one has 5.

QOx7Y95.jpg


The relay 7 is the heater relay and I can't find out why it has that extra soldering point because they are both OMIF-S-112LM relays. Maybe it suited an alternative heater relay that was used before that had a 5 point connection.

I am, however, wondering if the relay 6 isn't stuck and somehow sending the power to the machine when the cpu is not turned on because the manual describes that relay as "Power on/off"

Do you think I could test it with a battery + led running through the relay 6? I think the relay is suppose to stay open when the machine is turned off so if the led lights up it means the relay is fused closed, or maybe I am thinking the wrong way around.

EDIT: I completely misread your question, you were talking about the diode, not that big extra solder. Yes, that is a diode (zener diode, to be more precise) and I think it is used to dissipate the energy in the coil, both relays have it.
 
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Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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So, while I am waiting for some miracle to happen, I am still investigating the problem and decided to run a basic diagnostic today by disconnecting individual cables from the PCB, plug it to the wall and see the effects and I have discovered that (while the motor doesn't act like it did before because the responsible cable is disconnected) the Heater cable (which is actually the one that brings energy to the board) is still live.

With just that cable and the ground cable connected the display shows the same behaviour and the heater heats (something that I didn't notice before because the spining was dissipating the heat).
Does this mean that the energy is passing freely through the relay? The model of the relay is OMIF-S-112LM and I think it souldn't be letting the energy go to the heater by itself or every model like mine would be heating non-stop, even when off.

The following shows the wiring that connects to the heater relay and from there to the heater element.

This "blue out" wire goes to the door switch, it's not connected to anything in the next photos.
Wi1A3FW.jpg


Disregard the Blue and Navy green connectors on the left
aDlQPT5.jpg


xeJDLvF.jpg


If I disconnect either the Red+Black or the Green+White connector nothing happens then, not even the display. I think the Green+White is a ground cable.

With my limited knowledge I am now reducing the possible causes for this problem to be the following (in probability order-first most probable, last least probable):

- Heater relay stuck/fused

- Bad MICOM/CHIP or EEPROM

- Bad Noise Filter

I really hope it isn't the micom or eeprom. Does anyone else share that opinion?
 
Last edited:

Arouse1973

Adam
Dec 18, 2013
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Advance warning: This isn't likely to be helpful. ;)

I stared a while at the images and have a question. On the back side of the board there's something that appears to be a surface mounted diode in the region of Relay 7 (see below). It looks funny to me in the images, but it is in shadow so it's hard for me to tell. You're able to look right at it. Does it look funny to you?

The diode is called a MELF. It does not have any legs.
Thank Adam
 

Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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So I redid the morphing of the PCB back rear view so it would be more precise and to trace the paths the energy source is taking but I am now lost, there's so many paths.

I did find a direct path to one of the eeproms but I don't know what I can make of it.

4sm493C.jpg


Maybe someone else can make heads or tails out of this? Only those two connections (Red+Black and Green+White) are enough to cause the display to light up with those strange hyphens, and it shouldn't be doing that.

EDIT: Thanks for the more precise diode description, Adam, that is a MELF diode.
 
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Novice

Dec 24, 2013
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Just wanted to leave an update, I replace the PCB with another from a completely different model that had AG+.

I thought it wouldn't work at first because I didn't have the Silver Nano extra pcb and for my surprise it did work so if anyone is having the same problems of finding a replacement for their model then find one that is the equivalent of yours and it will work.
I don't know if the same is possible with the dryer versions so only try with those if you have absolutely no other choice.

My washing machine is a Q1044, portugal model - original PCB model is MFS-Q1044-00 - and the PCB that I used for replacement is from the Polish (or russian, I am not quite sure now) model F1245AV - PCB model MFS-1245A-00.

All connections fit perfectly and everything works well, except for the Silver Nano technology which I wouldn't want either way.
 
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