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Need help with commercial floor fan please

Discussion in 'Power Electronics' started by Nick635csi, Dec 21, 2020.

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  1. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    I tried what you said..sent Live to switch, switch to red (also tried blue), put my cap in between white and grey then black to grey and other black to neutral (also tried switching grey and white so fuse was between white and white instead). Still humming, played with speeds, on lower speed I can turn shaft with friction but stiffened on high. Also took a reading of voltage over live and neutral... 124.3
     
  2. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    I will undo ties and check and re post with pics
     
  3. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    IMG_20201227_1232425.jpg IMG_20201227_1232154.jpg IMG_20201227_1231302.jpg
     
  4. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    Bearings are not worn by any chance.
    What will happen there is it may spin freely by hand but when windings are energised, it will pull the rotor and make it rub against the internal pole faces.(called poling)

    Other than that, all I can think is that the windings have an internal short somewhere.
    One way to find that is with a growler or a shorted turns meter.
    Motor rewind shop will have one they could use to check.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  5. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Wow! Finally got it to work...went back to one of the first pics I posted.
    Live to switch, switch to high (red), cap in between grey and white, added fuse to white side then out to neutral and this time it worked?? Maybe I had a bad ground when I tried before?? Don't know but it works. Starts on high then I can change speed. Sounds smooth.
    I do have a couple more questions though;
    First, thank you all for the patience and help.
    1. While I have it open, I want to grease it up or oil it up...recommendations? It does sound smooth already but why not since I have it open, no?
    2. I would love to get the original control box if anybody knows a site for Honeywell fan parts?
    3. Maybe stupid question, but am I getting my full power with this switch and cap..in theory high has no resistance so it wouldn't matter, but amperage would make a difference no?
    Switch 1.5 amp max, 120/60
    Cap 3.0 250.
    Pics are in my posts
     
  6. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Screenshot_20201220-144958.png
     
  7. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    I took a bit of a punt as to which side would be neutral, however, it probably wouldn't have made that much difference anyhow.

    Being a commercial fan it may well have sealed bearings.
    Show a photo inside the end cap.......o_O

    No idea what you are getting at with query 3.
    At a guess, I think you want to disconnect the cap...........NOOOOOO.

    Would have been nice to know the control was not the original previously...... :confused:
     
  8. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    IMG_20201227_2255240.jpg IMG_20201227_2255497.jpg IMG_20201227_2255348.jpg IMG_20201227_2255405.jpg
     
  9. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Yeah, I got it with wires cut like that. So I went to go pick up a fan switch and a capacitor. As you see in pics in posts. I was given that size cap. In question 3, I guess I'm asking if fan is running at optimum with that setup?
     
  10. 73's de Edd

    73's de Edd

    2,999
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    Aug 21, 2015
    Nick635csi . . . . .

    Ist photo . . . shows end of motor and a 6 finger phospor bronze spring retainer which is pressing against and holding centered . . . .a porous sintered bronze bushing . . . a la . . .

    Pickchur . . . .
    [​IMG]

    Surrounding that bushing is a giant THICK-THICK-THICK felt washer that has its large central hole pressing into the pheriphery of that outer part of that ovaloid shaped bronze bushing /bearing.
    At final motor assembley day, that felt washer gets uber super soaked with thin low viscosity motor lube oil and a bit on the internal motor shaft end that spins within it..
    A timely weeping/wicking of motor oil passing from felt to be absorbed by the sintered bronze bushing, automatically takes care of your lubrication needs, until any later years, where any neglect of re oiling the felt donut, will encouner the motor shaft to the bushing pores with overheating , lube breakdown and its filling with broken down oil "varnishes" / films / gums.

    Photo 2 . . . gives a better view of the sintered bronze bushing surrounding the motor shaft. ? What is diameter of motor shaft ?

    Photos 3 &4 . . . give a motor shaft end view that rides within the bushing . . . . and for NO EXTRA CHARGE ! you can see the inside end of the bushing in the background with its bushings clean YELLOW felt packing surround.
    There being no view of any surfactal scoring or discolor from oil overheating . . . likely due to actual minimum use of the unit to date .

    As you might know, lubricating oils run HOTTER"N HELL in our vehicles when mechanically TAXED and in July- August heats . So the use of motor oil for THIS appliction is sort of ruled out.
    BUT . . I have found out that for the last 100 years or so , that my use of the RED dyed automatic transmission fluids of the 50-60-70's have worked well for this application, its viscosity is such that it readily weeps thru the porous bearing.

    Its my usual 1 year PM on all of my motors of THIS type . . . . just like day light saving times resets . . .except it being only once a year.


    Thaaaassssit . . . . .


    73's de Edd . . . .

    The easiest way to make a fire with two sticks is first making sure that . . . . . one of them is being a match.

    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
    Bluejets likes this.
  11. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    Well it's running..........big plus there as long as it's not smoking. :eek:

    If you mean is it running close to manufacturers specs, you'd have to reassemble and run the motor with a tong meter test to see if it's within the right range of load current.;);)
     
  12. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Thank you for all the information, I will check to see which oils I have handy and which stores I can access. Shaft is .31" or 7.9mm
    I had used multi meter at neutral and live on earlier post..is that same as what you are saying?
     
  13. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    No...a tong meter is designed to measure the current by induction.
    Google will show you.
     
  14. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Couple more issues here, sorry.
    1. Any other option for the push lock washer that holds fan blades? It broke off when I removed it. Looking online now. Went to 2 hardware stores and didn't find it, strange or unlucky?
    2. What happens if I would try a 4.0 or 5.0 cap instead? Just curious
    3. I'm not sure if I mentioned this, but it starts on high then I can switch speeds? Is it because od wiring?
     
  15. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    1. No idea...show us what you have there.
    2. Probably too high and would cause the start winding to draw more current.
    You need just enough to cause the 90 degree electrical phase shift.
    3. Do you mean it will not start on the lower speeds..?? ....Some fans are like that but a tong test would show.
    It may be that the larger cap is required but it depends on the above.
     
  16. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    IMG_20201230_1023492.jpg
     
  17. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    Shaft is 7.9mm. Maybe 8mm depending how accurate electronic digital caliper is. I guess I have to get a tong kit. Could be a late Xmas gift to myself. What should I see or expect from tong test?
     
  18. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    Clip seems to be some kind of proprietry line product ........others may have seen similar.

    As far as the tong meter, don't you have an electrician friend...??
    Cannot see all that much further hobbiest use for one and the outlay would not really be economical to say the least.
    The measurement from the tong meter shows the full load current as should be written on the motor label and should be an indication of whether you have the correct size capacitor or not.
     
  19. Nick635csi

    Nick635csi

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    Dec 20, 2020
    I have a question, I put everything together.. Since I don't have original control box, I got another switch with hi med lo with 2 wires. So I figured I would use high wire and eliminate use of med low wires. Starts great on high, but my med and low extremely weak. I hear noise from motor but not enough power. Medium spins so slow I can stop it with my finger. New switch? The pic of switch is in this thread above. Is it resistance of switch for med and low too high?
     
  20. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    Switch could be anything and not suitable for the job.
    How could we possibly know anything from the photo of a knob on a bracket..??

    Do you have a link to details/specs of the switch..??
     
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