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Need CFM for Brundage Fan

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by [email protected], Dec 12, 2013.

  1. Guest

    My home furnace has a Fan with a sticker from Brundage, Kalamazoo, MI
    and a type-in (serial/part?) number 26-13391.

    I had died and we replaced the capacitor and it now works fine. But there are
    no markings for CFM in case we need to replace the (1964) fan for our central
    HVAC system. Apparently it has two sets of coils to turn the fan and the
    capacitor is used to alernate the two coils.

    DOes anyone have a clue? I googled it and all I got was Linkedin ids for
    folks with that name in that town.


    - = -
    Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
    http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
    ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
    [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
    [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
     
  2. You poor fellow, what did you die from. Been there done that. ^_^

    TDD
     
  3. Yeah, how was it on the other side? Hot?

    Jamie
     
  4. Guest

    Followups set to alt.home.repair .
    Usually you don't swap out the entire blower assembly. If the motor
    goes bad, it can be replaced with another motor of the same size and
    rating. Local HVAC shops have the motors, brackets, etc in stock. If
    the belt, pulleys, or fan bearings (if equipped) go bad, they can also
    usually be replaced with standard parts of the same size - try the HVAC
    shop or hardware store. If the fan blade/blower wheel goes bad, it can
    be replaced with one of a similar size, rotation, and maximum RPM; if
    it is the same size, shape, and has pretty close to the same number of
    vanes/blades, it will move about the same CFM. (HVAC shop again.) You
    have already discovered that the capacitor can be replaced with standard
    parts.
    It probably has a "start" winding and a "run" winding. The run winding
    is energized the entire time the motor is running. The start winding
    is energized for only a few seconds when the motor first starts, through
    the capacitor.

    If the run winding quits, it might spin for a few seconds when it starts
    and then stop, or it may just sit there and buzz for a few seconds. If
    the start winding quits, it may spin up to speed very, very slowly, or
    again, just sit there and buzz.

    Out of curiosity, what kind of furnace is it? Gas, oil, electric? Also,
    where in the world is it? If it's gas, and not in the far southern US,
    a 49 year old furnace is probably pretty close to being done. An oil
    furnace that old and not down south is probably close to done too. The
    main problem is that the heat exchanger rusts out; the furnace still
    appears to work, but exhaust gas gets blown into your house.

    The new furnace "should" be sized by analyzing the house: how many
    windows does it have, how much insulation does it have, how exposed is
    it in each direction, etc. What usually happens is they don't analyze
    anything and put in the same size furnace that it had before, or *maybe*
    one size smaller or bigger. If the furnace is gas and you get a new
    one, even a cheap new one will be more efficient than the old one, which
    will save money on the gas bill.

    Suggestion: if you don't already have one, get a carbon monoxide alarm
    and install it (they are like smoke detectors). If it goes off, call
    the furnace guy today. If it doesn't go off, save some money while you
    wait for spring, and then call the furnace guy.

    Matt Roberds
     
  5. I was turned away as being unacceptable and told to leave. I was told to
    go back to where I came from. That's the story of my life, err, death.
    Dang it, I can't win. ^_^

    TDD
     
  6. Guest

    Sounds like it's purgatory for you! ;-)
     
  7. That's where Sister Godzilla told us little kids we would wind up when
    we were imprisoned at the Catholic Parochial Gulag. There, the behavior
    of children was controlled by the use of sheer terror. That's why I have
    absolutely no fear of terrorists, I used up all my fear when I was a
    small boy and nothing really scares me except penguins for some odd
    reason. ^_^

    TDD
     
  8. Guest

    *+-I had died


    It had died.. oops



    - = -
    Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
    http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
    ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
    [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
    [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
     
  9. Guest

    *+-If the run winding quits, it might spin for a few seconds when it starts
    *+-and then stop, or it may just sit there and buzz for a few seconds. If
    *+-the start winding quits, it may spin up to speed very, very slowly, or
    *+-again, just sit there and buzz.

    Exactly!!!

    *+-Out of curiosity, what kind of furnace is it? Gas, oil, electric? Also,
    *+-where in the world is it?

    New York City. 1964 York/BorgWarner. Gas.

    My nabe was built from land cleared for parking from the 1963 World's Fair.

    Am I right in thinking that new oil furnaces are more likely to produce big
    gains in efficiency than a gas one?

    *+-The new furnace "should" be sized by analyzing the house: how many

    I know. I'm a chemical engineer who is considering doing HVAC to get my PE.
    (My EIT is from 1981). So I took an HVAC course a year ago. I also know that
    since we have plenty rooms, it may take a while to do the caclulations.

    I found a web site for Brooklyn Fans who claim to sell Brundage fans. I
    emailed them. Also I found an HVAC shop (on THomas Register) in Kalamazoo
    which is named Brundage. Is it possible York had them make them?
    They seem to only have fifty employees.

    I can't believe there are no markings with CFM on the fan. Home Depot sells
    the fans by CFM. Maybe the sticker fell off long ago. Still, we're the
    original owners, so I doubt it. (My folks died. But my uncle lives in the
    other apartment, and he's an 80yo Electrical Engineer who spent ten years as
    a submarine officer. He found the bad capacitor.)

    Right now I'm hoping everything works fine. Fingers crossed. It's 25F
    outside. WHich is why I thought of preparing.. just in case.

    - = -
    Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
    http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
    ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
    [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
    [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
     
  10. Guest

    Followups set to alt.home.repair. Again. Attributions re-added and
    non-standard quoting fixed. At least it's better than Google Groups.
    In my opinion, 49 years is plenty long enough for a gas furnace to last.
    In Missouri and Oklahoma, I know of gas furnaces from the mid to late
    1960s, for single-family homes of 1400 square feet or so, that were
    replaced at about 30 years, 27 years, and 40 years. The 40-year-old one
    had a damaged heat exchanger and was leaking combustion gases into the
    house. The 30-year-old one was OK, as far as I know, but the home owner
    was concerned about it failing in the future, and also wanted a more
    efficient model. The 27-year-old one was replaced by the previous owner
    of the house, so I don't know why they did it.
    You may have already seen it, but this guy scanned the official guide
    to the World's Fair:
    http://www.butkus.org/information/worlds_fair_1964/worlds_fair_1964.htm
    I am pretty sure a new gas furnace will be more efficient than a 1964
    model. I don't know much about oil furnaces; they aren't used much
    around here (Missouri/Kansas/Oklahoma/Texas) and I don't do HVAC for a
    living. I assume a 2013 oil furnace would be at least a little more
    efficient than a 1964 oil furnace, but I don't know how that compares to
    gas furnaces.

    If you switch to oil, you do have the one-time cost of an oil tank and
    some plumbing. If you stick with gas, there's a 95+% chance that the
    existing gas plumbing can be reused.

    As you are probably aware :) , you have to mix fuel with air to burn it.
    Gas is, uh, not a solid or a liquid, and the gas company puts some
    pressure behind it for you, so basically you just let it escape through
    a known-sized hole and it mixes with air by itself. Oil has to get
    persuaded to mix with air by pumps and nozzles, which you get to buy and
    maintain as part of the furnace.

    Personally, I also like the idea that the gas is always there; just open
    up the valve and get warm. I don't have to remember to get the tank
    filled, or hope the oil truck can make it through the snow, etc.

    On the other hand, if you work for an oil company, maybe you get a
    company discount. :)
    You can get a spreadsheet to help for free, but you also apparently need
    a copy of the not-free book to go with it. Or maybe go to the library.
    https://www.acca.org/industry/system-design/speedsheets
    Maybe, but it may just be an unrelated HVAC service/install shop run by
    someone with the same name.

    I Googled "brundage fans" and found
    http://www.airmasterfan.com/History.htm , which seems more likely.
    Why not? The engineers at York obviously had a target CFM in mind when
    they chose the blower, but they also expected that people would either
    buy replacements from York (using the York part number) or from their
    local HVAC shop (using generic parts), so there wasn't a need to print
    the CFM on the blower itself.

    I looked at the installation and service manual for my 2009 Trane forced
    air gas furnace, and it doesn't have just a single number for the blower
    CFM; it depends on the static pressure of the ducting. (It also has a
    variable-speed blower, so it depends on which speed it selects.)
    If his apartment has its own furnace, and it's the same as yours, and
    something craps out in the middle of January, make one good one out of
    the parts of both of them and sleep in one apartment for a few days.
    The HVAC salesman's eyes light up when somebody walks in with icicles
    in their hair. :)

    Matt Roberds
     
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