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Natural Gas vs Electric: Genereator Crossover?

P

(PeteCresswell)

Jan 1, 1970
0
This is total idle curiosity and, I guess, a question for the
engineers.


I've read a couple of comments so far that suggest that
electricity costs about twice what natural gas does - presumably
for a given energy output.

That being the case, there must be a crossover point where
fueling a home generator with nat gas becomes as cheap as getting
electricity from the grid.

Seems obvious that crossover point has not been reached with
electric at 2x nat gas... but does anybody know where that
crossover point is in terms of electricity cost vs natural gas
cost per unit of energy delivered?
 
V

vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
(PeteCresswell) said:
That being the case, there must be a crossover point where
fueling a home generator with nat gas becomes as cheap as getting
electricity from the grid.
I suppose so, but you can't just look a fuel costs vs. your power bill. It
costs real money to maintain a generator. Every X number of hours, you need
either a new generator, or a complete rebuild. Compared to any subsidy-free
method of generating our own power, buying power from the grid is probably the
biggest bargain of our lives.

That said, any "break even" point would come far faster if you lived in a cold
climate and used the generator's waste heat for home heating and DHW.

Vaughn
 
B

Bill

Jan 1, 1970
0
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
This is total idle curiosity and, I guess, a question for the
engineers.


I've read a couple of comments so far that suggest that
electricity costs about twice what natural gas does - presumably
for a given energy output.

That being the case, there must be a crossover point where
fueling a home generator with nat gas becomes as cheap as getting
electricity from the grid.

If it was cheaper, I would have installed one years ago along with everyone
else! (I keep my ears open for this stuff...)

One thing is the generator would need to be running full blast at all times
even if you have just one light on.

Here someone said it cost them $30 a day to run their NG generator...
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=9828089

Here are a bunch of numbers and it says it does use less fuel with a lighter
load...
http://www.yamaha-propane-natural-gas-generators.com/fuel_consumption.htm
 
B

Bob F

Jan 1, 1970
0
vaughn said:
I suppose so, but you can't just look a fuel costs vs. your power
bill. It costs real money to maintain a generator. Every X number
of hours, you need either a new generator, or a complete rebuild. Compared to
any subsidy-free method of generating our own power,
buying power from the grid is probably the biggest bargain of our
lives.
That said, any "break even" point would come far faster if you lived
in a cold climate and used the generator's waste heat for home
heating and DHW.

Anyone have any idea how much longer you can go between rebuilds on natural gas
compared to gasoline or diesel. I have heard it burns cleaner, so less wear.
 
V

vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
My solution is to go guerilla solar.

I've thought of that, but we are supposed to get "smart" meters sometime in the
next year or two. I'm afraid those devices will put and end to guerilla solar
because they are potentially capable of detecting your system if your power flow
goes "backwards" for even a minute.

Since my PV system is partially about emergency power, I just keep thinking of
uses for 12 volts, and am gradually running new 12-volt circuits through the
house. I also have 12-volt yard lights.

Vaughn
 
B

Bob F

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Mike;


My solution is to go guerilla solar. Pump juice back into the grid,
at least you get the full KWH rate or 10 cents per kwh rather than
the 2 cents you MAY get if you go the route of the power company, and
install separate meters, elaborate "safety" (expensive) equipment,
code updates, and then you may not get approved. Essentially you are
generating your own power without a generator, it's called a
grid tie inverter. As money becomes available, add solar panels, you
can get 80 percent paid for it in tax rebates from Fed, State, tree
huggers. Go to You Tube and search "grid tie inverter", you will be
amazed at how easy it is. But, mums the word, don't do any bragging
to your neighbor.

If you do that, you miss out on the premium many utilities pay for solar
generated power above their price for power. It can be substantial.
 
Y

you

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
My solution is to go guerilla solar. Pump juice back into the grid,
at least you get the full KWH rate or 10 cents per kwh rather than
the 2 cents you MAY get if you go the route of the power company, and
install separate meters, elaborate "safety" (expensive) equipment,
code updates, and then you may not get approved. Essentially you are
generating your own power without a generator, it's called a
grid tie inverter. As money becomes available, add solar panels, you
can get 80 percent paid for it in tax rebates from Fed, State, tree
huggers. Go to You Tube and search "grid tie inverter", you will be
amazed at how easy it is. But, mums the word, don't do any bragging
to your neighbor.

and if you get caught the Utility company will sue the pants off you,
and you will be Homeless and broke.....
 
Y

you

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
and tell
the utility to suck your bodily parts....

and the Utility sends out a Lineman, and cuts off your service because
you are NOT in compliance with their Tariffs.....

some day you will learn....
 
B

Bruce Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob F said:
Anyone have any idea how much longer you can go between rebuilds on natural
gas
compared to gasoline or diesel. I have heard it burns cleaner, so less wear.

Well, it really depends on the engine make, AND model, as well as a
number of other design criteria. Some diesels can go 50K to 60K
Operational Hours between InFrame rebuilds. Some of the Home Depot
Gensets will only get 200-500 Operational Hours between New and SCRAP.
NG is cleaner than Gasoline, but that is only none MINOR factor in PTBI,
(Mean Time between InFrames) and that does NOT include Top Ends that
usually need to be done at 50% InFrame times.
 
V

vaughn

Jan 1, 1970
0
you said:
and if you get caught the Utility company will sue the pants off you,
and you will be Homeless and broke.....

Another planet heard from...

Vaughn
 
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