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Multiple power strips daisy-chained, code?

J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Folks,

The fire marshall wasn't happy with daisy-chained power strips at
church. There is only low power stuff hanging off of them and we need
the 2nd one for those big wall warts (wider spaces, more stable). The
first strip doesn't have enough slots anyhow and you can't get partially
switched power strips with remote switch any other way. Only the first
one has surge protection.

Anyhow, are there "official" regs, codes and whatnot that talk about
this situation?
 
Hello Folks,

The fire marshall wasn't happy with daisy-chained power strips at
church. There is only low power stuff hanging off of them and we need
the 2nd one for those big wall warts (wider spaces, more stable). The
first strip doesn't have enough slots anyhow and you can't get partially
switched power strips with remote switch any other way. Only the first
one has surge protection.

Anyhow, are there "official" regs, codes and whatnot that talk about
this situation?

If you go to an electrical supply store (not Home Depot), but a real
electrical supply, you can buy a channel in which you can make a power
strip any length that you want, and the outlets are spaced wide, to
accomodate those big transformers for many electronics. (I personally
wish they would change the design of those transformers so they used a
regular cord and plug, and put the transformer end at the device, or
in the center of the cord). Anyhow, you buy the channel, and put
standard outlets into it. Then you wire it and use at least a #14
cord. You may need an electrician to wire it, or at least inspect it,
but most churches have at least one electrician who is a member, so
that should not be a problem.

I think these channel strips are made by Wiremold. Check their
website at Wiremold.com. There may be other manufacturers too.

I made one of these for my work bench. I have an 8 foot strip along
the rear of the bench, with 8 duplex outlets, powered with a #12 cord
to match the 20A breaker I have on the circuit. This way I dont have
to keep unplugging tools. I can leave my bench grinder, drill press,
chop saw, sander, and all the other tools plugged in all the time. If
I want to unplug these tools because of children or whatever, I just
unplug the whole strip rather than unplugging multiple tools. This
saves wear and tear on plugs and cords too.

LM
 
M

Martin Riddle

Jan 1, 1970
0
Joerg said:
Hello Folks,

The fire marshall wasn't happy with daisy-chained power strips at
church. There is only low power stuff hanging off of them and we need
the 2nd one for those big wall warts (wider spaces, more stable). The
first strip doesn't have enough slots anyhow and you can't get
partially switched power strips with remote switch any other way. Only
the first one has surge protection.

Anyhow, are there "official" regs, codes and whatnot that talk about
this situation?

No you cant do that, It violates overload conditions. Search for
'Relocatable power taps'

<http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24631>


Cheers
 
S

Sylvia Else

Jan 1, 1970
0
Martin said:
No you cant do that, It violates overload conditions. Search for
'Relocatable power taps'

<http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=24631>


Cheers

More likely the fire marshall doesn't really understand the issue, and
has merely been trained that daisy chaining of power strips is a no-no.

And, of course, there's always the danger that someone who also doesn't
understand the issue will unplug some of the low powered gear, and plug
in some high powered equipment instead.

Sylvia.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hello Folks,

The fire marshall wasn't happy with daisy-chained power strips at
church. There is only low power stuff hanging off of them and we need
the 2nd one for those big wall warts (wider spaces, more stable). The
first strip doesn't have enough slots anyhow and you can't get partially
switched power strips with remote switch any other way. Only the first
one has surge protection.

If you have a "Big Lots" store in the area, they have a really nice 4'
long power strip with a dozen evenly spaced outlets. They're perfect
for PCs and associated wall warts. I have one in my garage for the
bazillions of battery chargers for my cordless power tools.
Anyhow, are there "official" regs, codes and whatnot that talk about
this situation?

See your town or building inspector for their official regs, but they
generally use some form of the National Electrical Code, published by
the National Fire Protection Association.

In general, extension cords and power strips are for "temporary" use
only. Permanent installations should have the outlets hardwired
(yeah, right).
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you go to an electrical supply store (not Home Depot), but a real
electrical supply, you can buy a channel in which you can make a power
strip any length that you want, and the outlets are spaced wide, to
accomodate those big transformers for many electronics. (I personally
wish they would change the design of those transformers so they used a
regular cord and plug, and put the transformer end at the device, or
in the center of the cord). Anyhow, you buy the channel, and put
standard outlets into it. Then you wire it and use at least a #14
cord. You may need an electrician to wire it, or at least inspect it,
but most churches have at least one electrician who is a member, so
that should not be a problem.

I think these channel strips are made by Wiremold. Check their
website at Wiremold.com. There may be other manufacturers too.

I made one of these for my work bench. I have an 8 foot strip along
the rear of the bench, with 8 duplex outlets, powered with a #12 cord
to match the 20A breaker I have on the circuit. This way I dont have
to keep unplugging tools. I can leave my bench grinder, drill press,
chop saw, sander, and all the other tools plugged in all the time. If
I want to unplug these tools because of children or whatever, I just
unplug the whole strip rather than unplugging multiple tools. This
saves wear and tear on plugs and cords too.



** Such a home made contraption would violate safety regulations in any
place I know of.

Mains power accessories, extensions leads and multi-way outlets etc are all
required to be agency approved before going on sale - PLUS the latter must
all have a suitable circuit breaker included in the active line.



....... Phil
 
I don't see why. They claim that they are not rated for high current but
ours are. They are rated for the full circuit breaker current. I still
don't see the problem.

Power strips are considered so dangerous that some jurisdictions
with stiffest fire codes do not permit them. The concept is simple.
If one power strip can provide enough connections, then more wall
receptacles are necessary.

One power strip is considered an optional (some consider only
temporary) solution. If so many permanent connections are necessary,
then more wall receptacles are needed.

If current exceeds the 15 amp rating (those power strips should
never be 20 amp fused), that is safety? Circuit breaker is your
emergency backup protection. Others have defined that circuit breaker
as primary protection. Primary protection is to not daisy chain
power strips. That circuit breaker is only emergency backup
protection. Inspector was correct especially in a building that may
contain so many people and that might be empty (unsupervised) for long
periods.

Narrower wall warts? See many new designs such as products from CUI
Inc. Why did your appliance manufacturer not use this?
http://tinyurl.com/d9h7rf
Or buy special (UL approved) power strips designed with wider
separation.

Every power strip must have a circuit breaker for an always
necessary additional protection layer.

Meanwhile, that surge protector did not provide and does not claim
to provide surge protection. If in doubt, post the numeric spec that
claims such protection - and good luck. Effective protection has
always been at the breaker box where surges are earthed before
entering the building. That is surge protection for everything at
much lower cost. Surge protectors that provide surge protection make
a typically 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth. Such protectors
even remain functional after every surge meaning nobody even knew the
surge existed. Ineffective protectors fail.

Will that silly little power strip stop what three miles of sky
could not? Of course not. And yet that is what the power strip must
do. How will it absorb all that energy and remain functional (as
effective protectors have done even for 100 years)? That power strip
does not. And finally, scary pictures of another problem seen by most
fire departments:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

If protection is needed, then upgrade (at little cost) building
earthing to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code. Then
install one 'whole house' protector that actually provides surge
protection for everything. That solution is even simpler than
installing more wall receptacles. Responsible companies such as
Siemens, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), Square D, and GE
provide these effective solutions.
 
P

Phil Allison

Jan 1, 1970
0
<[email protected]>

Power strips are considered so dangerous that some jurisdictions
with stiffest fire codes do not permit them.


** Cite ???


The concept is simple.
If one power strip can provide enough connections, then more wall
receptacles are necessary.


** Totally FALSE concept.

Only a moron would believe that one.



One power strip is considered an optional (some consider only
temporary) solution.


** Anything that plugs into a wall outlet is TEMPORARY!!

IDIOT !!!


If so many permanent connections are necessary,
then more wall receptacles are needed.

** Totally FALSE.

Only a moron would believe that one.



If current exceeds the 15 amp rating (those power strips should
never be 20 amp fused), that is safety? Circuit breaker is your
emergency backup protection. Others have defined that circuit breaker
as primary protection.


** You some sort of retard with Neanderthal grammar ??


Primary protection is to not daisy chain
power strips.


** Yawnnnnnnnnn....


That circuit breaker is only emergency backup
protection. Inspector was correct especially in a building that may
contain so many people and that might be empty (unsupervised) for long
periods.


** This UTTER CRETIN must be a reject from a fat chick porn site.

Snip rest of his spew inducing verbal diarrhoea.

Peeeeeeeuuuuuuuuukkkkkkkeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......




....... Phil
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:33:37 -0800 (PST), the renowned
Power strips are considered so dangerous that some jurisdictions
with stiffest fire codes do not permit them. The concept is simple.
If one power strip can provide enough connections, then more wall
receptacles are necessary.

One power strip is considered an optional (some consider only
temporary) solution. If so many permanent connections are necessary,
then more wall receptacles are needed.

I have almost 50 things plugged in 24/7, just in my own office. That's
a lot of receptacles for one room.

If current exceeds the 15 amp rating (those power strips should
never be 20 amp fused), that is safety? Circuit breaker is your
emergency backup protection. Others have defined that circuit breaker
as primary protection. Primary protection is to not daisy chain
power strips. That circuit breaker is only emergency backup
protection. Inspector was correct especially in a building that may
contain so many people and that might be empty (unsupervised) for long
periods.

Narrower wall warts? See many new designs such as products from CUI
Inc. Why did your appliance manufacturer not use this?
http://tinyurl.com/d9h7rf
Or buy special (UL approved) power strips designed with wider
separation.

Every power strip must have a circuit breaker for an always
necessary additional protection layer.

Meanwhile, that surge protector did not provide and does not claim
to provide surge protection. If in doubt, post the numeric spec that
claims such protection - and good luck. Effective protection has
always been at the breaker box where surges are earthed before
entering the building. That is surge protection for everything at
much lower cost. Surge protectors that provide surge protection make
a typically 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth. Such protectors
even remain functional after every surge meaning nobody even knew the
surge existed. Ineffective protectors fail.

Will that silly little power strip stop what three miles of sky
could not? Of course not. And yet that is what the power strip must
do. How will it absorb all that energy and remain functional (as
effective protectors have done even for 100 years)? That power strip
does not. And finally, scary pictures of another problem seen by most
fire departments:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Articles/Surge Protectors.pdf
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm

If protection is needed, then upgrade (at little cost) building
earthing to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code. Then
install one 'whole house' protector that actually provides surge
protection for everything. That solution is even simpler than
installing more wall receptacles. Responsible companies such as
Siemens, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), Square D, and GE
provide these effective solutions.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
P

PeterD

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most safety folks do but not one was ever able to explain to me exactly
what could go wrong, provided all strips are capable to handle full
circuit current.

The thought is that at some point someone will put 10 amps load on the
first strip, then put 10 amps load on the second, and because the
first strip is rated at 13 amps (typically) all heck will break loose.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
PeterD said:
The thought is that at some point someone will put 10 amps load on the
first strip, then put 10 amps load on the second, and because the
first strip is rated at 13 amps (typically) all heck will break loose.


13A? I don't think that UL would give such a power strip a blessing. I
just looked at the strip here under my desk, it is rated at 15A and UL
registered. The instant the user would plug in the 2nd 10A load the
mains breaker would trip because it will not allow more than 15A total.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well, we must surge protect plus switch a partial panel of switches
while not switching some others.

Two strips + surge suppressor.
Then why do most have screw mounting features on the back _and_ a UL
blessing?

"UL" is required for temporary use too. UL <> NFPA. NFPA is the
controlling authority in most jurisdictions.

The UL approved mounting holes won't catch on fire. ;-)

Also note that "UL" is often counterfeited.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
13A? I don't think that UL would give such a power strip a blessing. I
just looked at the strip here under my desk, it is rated at 15A and UL
registered. The instant the user would plug in the 2nd 10A load the
mains breaker would trip because it will not allow more than 15A total.

Typically, each contact on a strip won't be rated for the full load
of the strip, which is what you're asking from inline strips.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
Typically, each contact on a strip won't be rated for the full load
of the strip, which is what you're asking from inline strips.

At least the ones I know look just like the contacts on a regular wall
outlet. And they should. If I was a UL inspector I would flag and refuse
a product that has sub-par amperage on individual outlets. What would
prevent a consumer to plug a space heater or a vacuum cleaner into a
power strip?
 
G

Glen Walpert

Jan 1, 1970
0
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:33:37 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:

If protection is needed, then upgrade (at little cost) building
earthing to meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical Code. Then
install one 'whole house' protector that actually provides surge
protection for everything. That solution is even simpler than
installing more wall receptacles. Responsible companies such as
Siemens, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), Square D, and GE
provide these effective solutions.

I agree completely with that, and will add a suggestion that the meter
base outside is a better place for the whole house surge supressor
than your main panel inside the house. No panel space is used up, and
the repairs are cheaper when an outside surge supressor explodes.

A few years back a storm caused a ~47kV line to contact a ~4.7 kv line
feeding around 100 houses near here. Around half of the houses had
utility installed surge supressors in the meter bases; all of these
meters were blown out of their sockets by the supressor blast, found 6
to 10 feet away. The meters with no supressor stayed put but were
fried. The one affected person I know did not have the surge
supressors; when his line voltage went from 240 to 2400 or so all of
the incadescent bulbes in the house went off like flash bulbs even
though they were turned off (the switches arced over) and arcing was
seen across the face of an empty receptacle that he happened to be
looking at. Strangely many of the compact flourescent bulbs survived,
and out of 5 computers and 2 televisions which were plugged in only
one HDD and 1 video card died (both on surge supressor outlet strips,
unlike some of the survivors). His damage likely would have been a
lot worse if the surge supressors on other houses had not been there
to help clear the transformer more quickly (all pole pigs on the
circuit failed open - the 47kV line breaker did not open).

I know of another similar incident a few decades ago, caused by a tree
trimming mishap rather than a storm, where there were no meter base
surge supressors and several houses were burned to the ground by the
near minute long overvoltage fault. 240 volt curcuit breakers cannot
clear a 2400 volt fault; the contacts arc over. Blowing the meter out
of the socket is a more effective disconnect since the contacts are
much further apart.
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
At least the ones I know look just like the contacts on a regular wall
outlet. And they should. If I was a UL inspector I would flag and refuse
a product that has sub-par amperage on individual outlets. What would
prevent a consumer to plug a space heater or a vacuum cleaner into a
power strip?

Duplex wall recepticals only have 15A contacts, though are rated
for 20A circuits (passthru).
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
Two strips + surge suppressor.


"UL" is required for temporary use too. ...


Let's face it, the majority of power strips will find a permanent home
underneath computer tables, on lab benches and behind entertainment
centers. I don't think folks at UL will be so naive as to believe that
all Americans would install 10 or more wall-mounted outlets behind their
monstrous TV/stereo cabinets.

... UL <> NFPA. NFPA is the
controlling authority in most jurisdictions.

It would be time that they agree on stuff. Mankind does not need this
much redundant (and costly) bureaucracy ;-)

The UL approved mounting holes won't catch on fire. ;-)

Also note that "UL" is often counterfeited.

That is true with most any cert. But if you buy from reputable brands
such as Leviton you should be ok.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
krw said:
Duplex wall recepticals only have 15A contacts, though are rated
for 20A circuits (passthru).

So again: What is wrong with daisy-chaining 15A-rated power strips
connected to an outlet that is on a 15A circuit with a 15A breaker in there?
 
B

bud--

Jan 1, 1970
0
What you are doing is probably quite safe. Unfortunately that may not count.

From the UL White Book:
"Relocatable power taps are not intended to be series connected (daisy
chained) to other relocatable power taps or to extension cords."
No reason is given but some likely ones are in this thread.
Chaining violates the UL listing and the fire marshal can legitimately
complain. Your problem of many devices to plug-in is common. You could
ask the fire marshal what his suggestion is. You could use one strip
that is switched and one that is not switched with each plugged into
half a duplex outlet. But then you need strips that have enough outlets.

Wiremold makes surface wiring channels and boxes that can be used to
pretty easily add outlets. Or you could permanently add lengths of
plug-mold - Wiremold with outlets every 6 inches. This is probably what
a fire marshal would like. They probably would have to be installed by
an electrician. Like letterman I have a cord connected length of
plugmold on my work bench. The fire marshal probably wouldn't like it.

And from the White Book:
"Relocatable power taps are not intended to be permanently secured to
building structures, tables, work benches or similar structures ...."
I remember when outlet strips had mounting holes.

========================================
Unfortunately Joerg said the magic work "surge" and attracted the
troll-formerly-know-as w_tom.

For reliable information on surges and surge protection read a guide
from the US NIST at:
<http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf>

Or a more technical guide from the IEEE:
Meanwhile, that surge protector did not provide and does not claim
to provide surge protection.

Complete nonsense.
Effective protection has
always been at the breaker box where surges are earthed before
entering the building.

Service panel suppressors are a good idea.
What does the NIST guide say?
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be
sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances
[electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected
to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some
kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be
NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the
service entrance is useless."

Service panel suppressors do not prevent high voltage between power and
phone/cable wires. The NIST guide suggests most equipment damage is
caused by high voltage between power and signal wires.

Because of that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to
the same plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through
the suppressor. External connections, like phone, also need to go
through the suppressor.
Will that silly little power strip stop what three miles of sky
could not? Of course not. And yet that is what the power strip must
do.

w has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection
must directly use earthing. Thus in his view plug-in suppressors (which
are not well earthed) can not possibly work. The IEEE guide explains
plug-in suppressors work by CLAMPING (limiting) the voltage on all wires
(signal and power) to the common ground at the suppressor. Plug-in
suppressors do not work primarily by earthing (or stopping or absorbing
or magic). The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere. (Read the guide
starting pdf page 40).
And finally, scary pictures of another problem seen by most
fire departments:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554

The village idiot ignores what his own hanford link says. It is about
"some older model" power strips and says overheating was fixed with a
revision to UL 1449 that required thermal disconnects. That was 1998.
There is no reason to believe, from any of these links, that there is a
problem with suppressors produced under the UL standard that has been in
effect since 1998. None of these links even say a damaged suppressor had
a UL label.
Responsible companies such as
Siemens, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), Square D, and GE
provide these effective solutions.

And all make plug-in suppressors except SquareD.

For it's "best" service panel suppressor SquareD says "electronic
equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [surge
suppressor] devices at the point of use."


For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

There are 98,615,938 other web sites, including 13,843,032 by lunatics,
and w can't find another lunatic that agrees with him that plug-in
suppressors are NOT effective.

And w can not answer simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in suppressor?
- Why do w's "responsible companies" make plug-in suppressors?
- Why does "responsible company" SquareD say "electronic equipment may
need additional protection by installing plug-in [suppressors] at the
point of use"?
 
S

Steve Sousa

Jan 1, 1970
0
bud-- said:
What you are doing is probably quite safe. Unfortunately that may not
count.

From the UL White Book:
"Relocatable power taps are not intended to be series connected (daisy
chained) to other relocatable power taps or to extension cords."
No reason is given but some likely ones are in this thread.
Chaining violates the UL listing and the fire marshal can legitimately
complain. Your problem of many devices to plug-in is common. You could ask
the fire marshal what his suggestion is. You could use one strip that is
switched and one that is not switched with each plugged into half a duplex
outlet. But then you need strips that have enough outlets.

Wiremold makes surface wiring channels and boxes that can be used to
pretty easily add outlets. Or you could permanently add lengths of
plug-mold - Wiremold with outlets every 6 inches. This is probably what a
fire marshal would like. They probably would have to be installed by an
electrician. Like letterman I have a cord connected length of plugmold on
my work bench. The fire marshal probably wouldn't like it.

And from the White Book:
"Relocatable power taps are not intended to be permanently secured to
building structures, tables, work benches or similar structures ...."
I remember when outlet strips had mounting holes.

========================================
Unfortunately Joerg said the magic work "surge" and attracted the
troll-formerly-know-as w_tom.

For reliable information on surges and surge protection read a guide from
the US NIST at:
<http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf>

Or a more technical guide from the IEEE:
Meanwhile, that surge protector did not provide and does not claim
to provide surge protection.

Complete nonsense.
Effective protection has
always been at the breaker box where surges are earthed before
entering the building.

Service panel suppressors are a good idea.
What does the NIST guide say?
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be
sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances
[electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected to
power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some kind of
two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO - but
that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service
entrance is useless."

Service panel suppressors do not prevent high voltage between power and
phone/cable wires. The NIST guide suggests most equipment damage is caused
by high voltage between power and signal wires.

Because of that all interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the
same plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires need to go through the
suppressor. External connections, like phone, also need to go through the
suppressor.
Will that silly little power strip stop what three miles of sky
could not? Of course not. And yet that is what the power strip must
do.

w has a religious belief (immune from challenge) that surge protection
must directly use earthing. Thus in his view plug-in suppressors (which
are not well earthed) can not possibly work. The IEEE guide explains
plug-in suppressors work by CLAMPING (limiting) the voltage on all wires
(signal and power) to the common ground at the suppressor. Plug-in
suppressors do not work primarily by earthing (or stopping or absorbing or
magic). The guide explains earthing occurs elsewhere. (Read the guide
starting pdf page 40).
And finally, scary pictures of another problem seen by most
fire departments:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554

The village idiot ignores what his own hanford link says. It is about
"some older model" power strips and says overheating was fixed with a
revision to UL 1449 that required thermal disconnects. That was 1998.
There is no reason to believe, from any of these links, that there is a
problem with suppressors produced under the UL standard that has been in
effect since 1998. None of these links even say a damaged suppressor had a
UL label.
Responsible companies such as
Siemens, Leviton, Intermatic, Cutler-Hammer (Eaton), Square D, and GE
provide these effective solutions.

And all make plug-in suppressors except SquareD.

For it's "best" service panel suppressor SquareD says "electronic
equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [surge
suppressor] devices at the point of use."


For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

There are 98,615,938 other web sites, including 13,843,032 by lunatics,
and w can't find another lunatic that agrees with him that plug-in
suppressors are NOT effective.

And w can not answer simple questions:
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in suppressor?
- Why do w's "responsible companies" make plug-in suppressors?
- Why does "responsible company" SquareD say "electronic equipment may
need additional protection by installing plug-in [suppressors] at the
point of use"?

What about systems where Neutral is not connected to ground? (europe)
Shall the cable and phone line shields be connected to ground?
 
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