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Multiple magnets, one zone, EOL resistor. Never works!

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by alarman, Oct 24, 2005.

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  1. alarman

    alarman Guest

    What panel are you using?
    js
     
  2. Total nerd

    Total nerd Guest

    This never seems to work properly for me. Here's what I do... am I
    doing something wrong?
    I want to secure, say, 4 windows with magnets. I take two wires from
    the panel -- a green and yellow. The green wire goes uncut allllll the
    way to the last magnet and I place an EOL resistor there and join it
    with one lead on the last magnet. The yellow wire gets cut at each
    window and a magnet is placed at each cut by simply splicing in the two
    leads of the magnet. This is what I would call a series circuit. Now,
    if I open any window, the circuit is open. If all windows are closed,
    all magnets are closed and the circuit is closed with an EOL resistor
    reading 2.2K ohms. I've checked this with a meter. All I have to do
    is plug the green and yellow into a zone and program the panel that
    it's a NC zone with an EOL resistor on it. Why does it always think
    it's open? If I take the EOL resistor out and program the zone to have
    NO EOL resistor then of course it works. What the heck am I doing
    wrong??
     
  3. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    You couldn't possibly be joining a lead to a magnet!


    | This never seems to work properly for me. Here's what I do... am I
    | doing something wrong?
    | I want to secure, say, 4 windows with magnets. I take two wires from
    | the panel -- a green and yellow. The green wire goes uncut allllll the
    | way to the last magnet and I place an EOL resistor there and join it
    | with one lead on the last magnet. The yellow wire gets cut at each
    | window and a magnet is placed at each cut by simply splicing in the two
    | leads of the magnet. This is what I would call a series circuit. Now,
    | if I open any window, the circuit is open. If all windows are closed,
    | all magnets are closed and the circuit is closed with an EOL resistor
    | reading 2.2K ohms. I've checked this with a meter. All I have to do
    | is plug the green and yellow into a zone and program the panel that
    | it's a NC zone with an EOL resistor on it. Why does it always think
    | it's open? If I take the EOL resistor out and program the zone to have
    | NO EOL resistor then of course it works. What the heck am I doing
    | wrong??
    |
    |
     
  4. Total nerd

    Total nerd Guest

    Napco Gemini P3200
     
  5. alarman

    alarman Guest

    Heh.
    Nobody's being silly. You referred to a window contact as a magnet. It's
    not. The magnet is what activates the contact. Everyone knew what you meant,
    and most just overlook your clumsy grasp of the nomenclature since you are a
    novice. Crash pointed out your mistake, in a good natured way IMO. Now you
    come off like you were absolutely correct, and go right for the "it's not
    rocket science" crap. You obviously still believe that a switch is a magnet,
    or visa-versa, proving that you don't know what the **** you're doing. Or
    maybe you can explain to us dummies how you can "make a magnet act like a
    switch in a series circuit".
    js
     
  6. Total nerd

    Total nerd Guest

    Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
    wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
    other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
    open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
    know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
    don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
    expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
    meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
    zone?
     
  7. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    hey i was just kidding around.
    you probably have something programmed incorrectly.


    | Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
    | wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
    | other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
    | open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
    | know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
    | don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
    | expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
    | meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
    | zone?
    |
    |
     
  8. Rich

    Rich Guest

    That's the way I'd do it. If it works to the meter it must be in
    programming. Is it on a delay or loop resonsive fast or slow mode?
     
  9. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Many of the panels I have worked on take a 1K ohm resistor.

    Be sure you are using the correct value resistor for your panel.

    Also try putting just a resistor (of correct value) on the terminals with
    the wires removed.

    When wiring a building/house, etc. It is a good idea to bring separate wires
    to a junction point.

    Then what you can do is first get just the resistor working on the panel.
    Then add just one contact and get that working. Then add another and
    another. (Isolate the problem...)
     
  10. alarman

    alarman Guest

    I'm sure he already thought of that though. After all, "it's not rocket
    science" you know.
    js
     
  11. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    I would still like to know how to: "...make a magnet act like a switch in a
    series circuit..." but if I push the issue I guess I'd be being picky.



    | "Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
    | > know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
    | > don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
    | > expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit."
    |
    | Hmmmmmmmmmm, who's asking who about alarms??? You're right, it isn't
    rocket
    | science, you can figure it out on your own.....................
    |
    |
    | | > Don't be silly. The magnet switch has two leads. I cut the yellow
    | > wire and join one cut end with one lead and the other cut end with the
    | > other lead. That makes the magnet complete the circuit or leave it
    | > open, acting like a switch. Look, this stuff isn't rocket science, I
    | > know how to make a magnet act like a switch in a series circuit, I just
    | > don't think I fully understand what the panel is looking for when it
    | > expects an EOL resistor in a series circuit. I show 2.2K ohms on the
    | > meter when all switches are closed, but the panel thinks it's an open
    | > zone?
    | >
    |
    |
     
  12. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    in his case I'd disconnect the loop and put the 2.2 right across the zone
    and check programming and make that work before adding the loop back on.


    | Many of the panels I have worked on take a 1K ohm resistor.
    |
    | Be sure you are using the correct value resistor for your panel.
    |
    | Also try putting just a resistor (of correct value) on the terminals with
    | the wires removed.
    |
    | When wiring a building/house, etc. It is a good idea to bring separate
    wires
    | to a junction point.
    |
    | Then what you can do is first get just the resistor working on the panel.
    | Then add just one contact and get that working. Then add another and
    | another. (Isolate the problem...)
    |
    |
     
  13. Guest

    nah, trow it away and buy a dog. :)
     
  14. Total nerd

    Total nerd Guest

    Yeah, that's a good idea -- I simply shorted all the window contacts
    together and pulled the wires off the panel. I measures 2.2K ohms on
    the meter. Then, one at a time, I disconnected each window contact, to
    assure myself that it indeed produced an open circuit, and it did. So
    either: you're right and the value of the resistor is not compatible
    with the panel, or the panel programming is wrong, or some other
    outside force is influencing my zone such as the phase of the moon or
    number of resident aliens in the local area.
    One question, though: If I cut the yellow wire for each window switch,
    should the EOL resistor be placed on the same yellow wire before the
    last switch, or on the green uncut wire just after the last switch?
     
  15. Total nerd

    Total nerd Guest

    Give me a break. You guys are completely incapable of having a
    sensible discussion. You're so good at dishing it out but you can't
    take it at all. Yes, I'm a homeowner and no I'm not a professional,
    and yes I mistakingly used the word Magnet instead of Switch, and yes I
    also know how it works and what the magnet does. You guys are so full
    of yourselves that you need to pick on someone like me simply because I
    used the wrong word, not realizing that the mere fact so many DIY can
    handle a small home alarm installation proves that being an alarm
    professional doesn't require too much more knowledge, and as the years
    progress this stuff will only become easier for the average person to
    install, not harder, and your attitude will fade. The truth is, the
    question, regardless of the improper terminology, is valid and you all
    knew what I meant. I presume, without being too bold, that if
    "alarman" said something like "... so I hooked up the magnet to zone
    1..." no one would beat him up for it because we all know what he means
    and we're all above that petty crap. Nevertheless, continuing this
    would be futile and a waste of this newsgroup, so I've said my peace.
    Thank all of you who treat this newsgroup as a shared informational
    space, not a kindergarten arena.
     
  16. Bill

    Bill Guest

    Probably not. Most people I know who are new to the alarm business are not
    good at troubleshooting problems. It is something which needs to be learned
    (and taught).

    Many experienced alarm techs that I have known are quite helpful, will give
    detailed advice, training, etc.

    The best troubleshooting tip I have been taught, is if you have multiple
    contacts (say 15), and something is not working, try testing half the loop
    and see if that half works. If it does, then test half of the remaining
    loop, etc.

    And if you have a situation where there is "one wire" following around the
    perimeter of a building going to this contact and that contact as it travels
    around, and there is an open somewhere, then just run a wire from the panel
    as you walk around to various contacts and test each point along the loop.

    Or invest in a phone company type wiring "tone generator" if you are in the
    repair end of things and need to do this frequently...
     
  17. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    oh stop being so sensitive...we have to have fun somewhere...consider it
    dues you pay for real and free advice recieved here.


    | Give me a break. You guys are completely incapable of having a
    | sensible discussion. You're so good at dishing it out but you can't
    | take it at all. Yes, I'm a homeowner and no I'm not a professional,
    | and yes I mistakingly used the word Magnet instead of Switch, and yes I
    | also know how it works and what the magnet does. You guys are so full
    | of yourselves that you need to pick on someone like me simply because I
    | used the wrong word, not realizing that the mere fact so many DIY can
    | handle a small home alarm installation proves that being an alarm
    | professional doesn't require too much more knowledge, and as the years
    | progress this stuff will only become easier for the average person to
    | install, not harder, and your attitude will fade. The truth is, the
    | question, regardless of the improper terminology, is valid and you all
    | knew what I meant. I presume, without being too bold, that if
    | "alarman" said something like "... so I hooked up the magnet to zone
    | 1..." no one would beat him up for it because we all know what he means
    | and we're all above that petty crap. Nevertheless, continuing this
    | would be futile and a waste of this newsgroup, so I've said my peace.
    | Thank all of you who treat this newsgroup as a shared informational
    | space, not a kindergarten arena.
    |
     
  18. Crash Gordon

    Crash Gordon Guest

    Well...what value resistor does whatever panel you are installing call for?
    Ademco uses 1K or 2K, some other panels may have one value for a burg zone
    and a DIFFERENT value for a fire zone.


    | Yeah, that's a good idea -- I simply shorted all the window contacts
    | together and pulled the wires off the panel. I measures 2.2K ohms on
    | the meter. Then, one at a time, I disconnected each window contact, to
    | assure myself that it indeed produced an open circuit, and it did. So
    | either: you're right and the value of the resistor is not compatible
    | with the panel, or the panel programming is wrong, or some other
    | outside force is influencing my zone such as the phase of the moon or
    | number of resident aliens in the local area.
    | One question, though: If I cut the yellow wire for each window switch,
    | should the EOL resistor be placed on the same yellow wire before the
    | last switch, or on the green uncut wire just after the last switch?
    |
     
  19. alarman

    alarman Guest

    Uh, lemme guess...you're a network enginer. Right? Jeez you guys are
    predictable.
    js
     
  20. alarman

    alarman Guest

    Hey, Mr. Bill
    Most of us will help too, it just gets a little old when one of these types
    starts with the attitude. On one hand, he doesnt grasp the simplest concepts
    relating to his security system, but on the other hand, "it's not rocket
    science." Tell you what...give ME a break, huh?
    js
     
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