Multipath WLAN problem?

[krw]

Do you think these routers can hiccup from their own RF echoes? It
almost seems like that but somehow I couldn't quite believe it. But
maybe it does because this building is full of hard RF reflectors,
aluminm-backed insulation in all the interior walls.

While a bit bigger space, our 2.4G widget barfs in the Super Dome.
Boosting the power makes things even worse. Last try, a pad didn't
work either, likely because it also attenuated the received signal. We
don't have a good way of separating the receiver yet.

 

[JosephKK]

You are 'clearly' retarded in making assessments, and have no place
doing so, asswipe. The rat's maze example was ALL about your 'path
difference' question. When you're all done bitching about all this stop
to remember that these are digital packets being sent back and forth. The
industry has been pretty good at making that happen, and one person
constantly pitching a bitch about all his problems being due to multipath
distortion pretty much gets shot to hell the moment the WLAN handshake
takes place between the two points.


No. You have a case where the claimed problem has been claimed to be
different than the standard case. That doesn't mean that it is, nor does
it mean that the observer is making the proper observations, nor does it
mean that he is qualified to make any such observations. Bitching about
multipath is common with this guy, and that should set an alarm flag for
everyone, but doesn't for some reason.


I don't need a primer, dumbfuck. I've worked with diversity receivers
in this band for five years at least, ending a few years ago.

True diversity has signal processing which detects any multipath and
uses that as a factor in determining the best antenna to use for a
signal. It also has the capacity to cancel or ignore the reflected
signal components. It doesn't just pick the highest power level signal.
It picks the BEST signal. WLAN routers do NOT perform their claim of
'diversity' between the two closely spaced antennas on their router case
the same way the true diversity industry does.


First off, I do not need your fucked in the head 'you gotta post like
this' stupidity. 2ndoff, you can **** off trying to tell folks what to
do with their posting in Usenet.

Look, asswipe, I was referring to multipath, idiot! I have posted into
this thread several times and ALL have been on topic and to the thread,
you idiotic piece of shit.

I was also referring to the solution the dope needs, you dopey,
no-you-are-NOT-a-moderator IDIOT! Not that I need to subscribe to your
retarded assessments for reply criteria to begin with. In other words,
you retarded asswipe, **** YOU. **** off and die! You stupid ****.

So sensitive to a little bit of challenge. Credible NOT.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

While a bit bigger space, our 2.4G widget barfs in the Super Dome.
Boosting the power makes things even worse. Last try, a pad didn't
work either, likely because it also attenuated the received signal. We
don't have a good way of separating the receiver yet.

It doesn't 'barf' because of multipath, however.

 

[SoothSayer]

So sensitive to a little bit of challenge. Credible NOT.

So illiterate that you couldn't grasp the reply. Intelligent NOT. You
don't even begin to carry credence. Nice try though.

 

[Joerg]

My bet is you have a echo enhancing chamber and are getting RF pattern
issues. Does anything change if you "load" the room by adding people
or moving around? Can you put a leaky dummy load on instead of a
antenna? Do you have any good quality microwave coax or attenuators
laying around? Set up a loosely coupled cable link between your two
rooms and see what happens. I know, by law its supposed to be a hard
to get connector, so try indirect coupling of the cable, ie a passive
repeater.

Moving stuff in the room doesn't but moving the AP does, to some extent.
It's reverse SM-something connectors.

If I wanted to jam direct sequence spread spectrum, I'd add pulses
1/4 bit time leading and 1/4 bit time lagging. While I doubt your room
has any where near enough Q to ring that long, somewhere your getting
RF intermod or a reflection effect the system doesn't like. Other
things come to mind like desensing the receiver, bad or saturated
VSWR sense circuit etc. I have no idea if a modern LAN even looks
at its reflected power, but its something I'd check. Are you close to
a army base (NTIA 2.4 ghz primary allocation) or someone using RF
heating?

Nope, the spectrum is fairly clean out here. It's almost a rural
setting. When there's Air Force exercises in the area some RF gear goes
on the fritz once in a while but it becomes obvious immediately what the
cause is. Those fighter jets aren't exactly quiet ;-)

Lets start with basics Take the unit(s) outside and perform a
simple range and operations test. Leave it run outside a while. This
signal should only be a few mW to a few 10s of mW, so desense is
unlikely, but possible. You are using the factory antennas right?

Can't do that right now, one rain storm after the other. OTOH we really,
really need that rain so I won't complain.

Occam's Razor says the problem is usually something basic or a
malfunction. My rule has always been if you don't have diagnostics,
you start "playing" till you find something. Download Net Stumbler
and if it gets you better diagnostics.

Will try netstumbler. Not sure if it runs with any of the wireless cards
here and whether I can extract signal integrity data out of it. It all
looks like our DTV here, tons of signal strength but daily multipath
breakdowns.

 

[Joerg]

While a bit bigger space, our 2.4G widget barfs in the Super Dome.
Boosting the power makes things even worse. Last try, a pad didn't
work either, likely because it also attenuated the received signal. We
don't have a good way of separating the receiver yet.

Oops, if that's the case here then I'll have to really play with its
location. The attic might be an option but maybe not because we have a
metal roof. Plus it'll freeze up there in winter and bake in the summer.

 

[krw]

It doesn't 'barf' because of multipath, however.

AlwaysWrong, DimBulb. ...but I'm being redundant, again.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

tons of signal strength but daily multipath
breakdowns.

Should read 'daily dropouts' since you do not REALLY know what the
cause is.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

AlwaysWrong, DimBulb. ...but I'm being redundant, again.

Got proof? DO you have ANY forum discussions other than the CRAP here
(like on Cisco's forum) that outline ANY multipath issues with wireless
LAN adapters? Hmmmm?

What you are being is redundantly STUPID.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

How about CAT-5 ?

...Jim Thompson

How about BUY and USE a SECOND router as a repeater?

Upgrade BOTH to DD-WRT firmware, and you will have a PRO set-up.

 

[Joerg]

It'll freeze over in winter and boil in summer.

How about CAT-5 ?

I've got CAT-5 and will lay some over there in addition. But not in
winter. Plus you never know who else is down there ;-)

 

[krw]

Got proof? DO you have ANY forum discussions other than the CRAP here
(like on Cisco's forum) that outline ANY multipath issues with wireless
LAN adapters? Hmmmm?

That you're always wrong? Yes. That it's multi-path? Yes.

What you are being is redundantly STUPID.

Some big words there, AlwaysWrong.

 

[krw]

Oops, if that's the case here then I'll have to really play with its
location. The attic might be an option but maybe not because we have a
metal roof. Plus it'll freeze up there in winter and bake in the summer.

Ours didn't work with the antenna in the roof of the Super Dome
shooting down at the field, either. It's a real mess.

 

[krw]

It'll freeze over in winter and boil in summer.

Gotta be better than the attic.

I've got CAT-5 and will lay some over there in addition. But not in
winter. Plus you never know who else is down there ;-)

DimBulb?

 

[Joerg]

Gotta be better than the attic.

Yeah, and then some day the cable is chewed off ;-)

DimBulb?

No, but we do have rattle snakes out here. The worst case is when you've
crawled 30ft or so, it's all dark, and something hisses behind you.

 

[Joerg]

Ours didn't work with the antenna in the roof of the Super Dome
shooting down at the field, either. It's a real mess.

If you get the "right" distances multipath can really wreck a data link.
The insulation here in the walls is nice, muffles sound quite well. But
I wish they had used the mats without the aluminum backing. If I could
legally use a MHz chunks off of the shortwave band or at least VHF that
would be cool.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

Some big words there, AlwaysWrong.

Only because you are BIG STUPID.

 

[krw]

Only because you are BIG STUPID.

You're AlwaysWrong, DimBulb.

 

[krw]

Yeah, and then some day the cable is chewed off ;-)

Sounds like that problem should be addressed first. Critters don't
pay rent, they go.

No, but we do have rattle snakes out here. The worst case is when you've
crawled 30ft or so, it's all dark, and something hisses behind you.

True, Dimbulb is toothless. Yeah, I don't like snakes either. In
particular ones that make noise, though I suppose that is an
advantage. Perhaps a pet Mongoose?

 

[krw]

And you find yourself without a pit to hiss in?

Hiss isn't the problem, at that point.