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mp3 project in Nuts & Volts

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nathan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Does anyone know which issue of Nuts & Volts had the article about
making your own mp3 player with a microcontroller, fpga, ide hard
drive, etc..? Or was it in Poptronics? I can't remember.

Thanks,
Nathan
 
N

nathan

Jan 1, 1970
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I got it mixed up. The article can be found in the January 2002 issue
of Poptronics. It was written by Paul Stoffregen who is well-known for
his work online at pjrc.com

Now I've got to figure out a fun project for my FPGA class.
Nathan
 
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Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I got it mixed up. The article can be found in the January 2002 issue
of Poptronics. It was written by Paul Stoffregen who is well-known for
his work online at pjrc.com

Now I've got to figure out a fun project for my FPGA class.
Nathan
I am designing a time base corrector + line doubler in FPGA
(line doubler so you can play the Y Cr Cb of a DVD player on a 32 kHz 50 Hz monitor,
timebase corrector so I can re-digitize my old VHS without the shift around the head switching).
For H only timebase corector in many cases FPGA internal RAM would be enough.
You can digitize using the comparator input level of FPGA and a r2r ladder, and
successive approximation.
It is all working, but line doubler only in BW, have the components for the color
version, but no time yet.
There are nice projects at www.opencores.com, whttp://www.fpga4fun.com
JP
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje said:
You can digitize using the comparator input level of FPGA and a r2r
ladder, and
successive approximation.

Just curious... do you lose much signal quality with this approach? DVD
component video output runs something like 4-7MHz bandwidth with something
like 60-90dB SNR (depending on how good the DVD player is), which seem like
'high' enough numbers that you really would have to use high quality
(precision) resistors in your R2R ladder, pay careful attention to
timebases, sample/hold circuits, etc.?

I do recognize that if you want what most people consider a 'perfectly
watchable' picture on a 19" TV you can get away with far lesser specs than
this.

---Joel Kolstad
 
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Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
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Just curious... do you lose much signal quality with this approach? DVD
component video output runs something like 4-7MHz bandwidth with something
like 60-90dB SNR (depending on how good the DVD player is), which seem like
'high' enough numbers that you really would have to use high quality
(precision) resistors in your R2R ladder, pay careful attention to
timebases, sample/hold circuits, etc.?
Well, the 'high precision r2r' is made of 10k resistors from the same batch.
It was an experiment, and it worked, the intent was to find out if the input
comparator on a Xilinx Spartan XC2S200 FPGA could be used, and it can.
The SN is bad.
In this real thing I am using Philips TDA8708 AD (it can do 8 bits at
32 MHz).
And it needs no sample hold (like the r2r).
Sampling is then done at 3 x color sub carrier, or 6 (about 26.5 MHz).
The test work perfectly, but to also do the color I will sample Y Cr Y Br
with a HCT4053 CMOS switch, (first 3 low pass Nyquist).
Then Y is sampled effectively with 3 x Fc and the color difference signals
with half of that.
First test had a LM 1881 sync separator, but now automatic sync slicing
and H and V detection, and a 2 Fh PLL are working OK.
In my opinion(!) hehe the signal to noise of 8 bit video is sufficient.
Given the fact that you are probably watching this on a monitor driven
by a RGB video card that has (very likely) 3 x 8 bits DA.
Even if it was 10 bits DA, the software *I* write only does 8 bits RGB
(24 bits video), X11 (Linux Xwindows) does not support more then that,
I dunno of any system / video card that does actually.
(There is a 32 bit X11 mode, but the last byte is always zero).
Given the viewing distance (I am close up) on a 19 inch monitor you
will really see more detail then on a big projection LCD.
Using 720x576, but look at the angle, sit in front and measure the angle.
That, and the price of a new bulb, is why I have not bough a LCD projector
yet. (and bad black level / light distribution).
The real problems are in time base correcting composite VHS PAL,
not only is it noisy (VHS) what causes all sorts of problems in the very fast
FPGA.
You cannot simply shift chroma, as the color sub carrier regenerator
(4.43 MHz) in the receiver will go out of lock with even a few degrees phase
error per line.
So you can jump a whole period (360 degrees), but that is more then 200nS,
and causes visible skew (horizontal).
In the old day studio machines used a variable analog delay line.....
(Amtec Colortec for example Ampex), to do it digitally is a challenge.
Is an FPGA exercise for me :)
There is some commercial potential for a small (1 FPGA + some stuff)
converter, digitizer, the dream is to also do DivX coding in the chip, and
then Ethernet stream as output at 1500kbps... But I still have do do a lot
and probably need a bigger FPGA do do that.
Cheap mpeg2 coding chips become more available, so perhaps why bother....
In the FPGA the stability of the 2 x horizontal PLL must also be very very
good (no noise), as it seems these monitors have really fast horizontal sync
PLL response, the slightest noise gives noisy edges on the picture.
Imagine even a few nanoseconds jitter on 32 kHz oscillator is visible on
my Samsung syncmaster.

Jan
 
J

Joel Kolstad

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the information, Jan -- it was most insightful!

Jan Panteltje said:
In my opinion(!) hehe the signal to noise of 8 bit video is sufficient.

Judging by the sales of $39 DVD players in this country, I would tend to
agree... at least for a large portion of the population! :)
Even if it was 10 bits DA, the software *I* write only does 8 bits RGB
(24 bits video), X11 (Linux Xwindows) does not support more then that,
I dunno of any system / video card that does actually.

Some years back there were monochrome cards meant for desktop publishing
that were 12 bits, but I'm not presently away of such cards for PCs anymore
(or OS support for it, as you mention).
The real problems are in time base correcting composite VHS PAL,
not only is it noisy (VHS) what causes all sorts of problems in the very
fast FPGA.

Yeah, so I've been told. Where I once worked, we used a brand of frame
capture card that advertised how well it worked with low-accuracy timebase
sources such as VCRs -- never did ask exactly what they did to make that the
case, though. Seems almost as though it is next to impossible to change
video standards 'on the fly' without a complete frame store so that you can
fudge the vertical blanking a little to make up for a low-accuracy timebase.
There is some commercial potential for a small (1 FPGA + some stuff)
converter, digitizer, the dream is to also do DivX coding in the chip, and
then Ethernet stream as output at 1500kbps...

I didn't know that... sounds like a pretty handy device. Interesting
that -- despite the high quality and availability of DivX -- it looks like
most of the commercial world is heading towards MPEG-4 as the successor to
MPEG-2.

---Joel Kolstad
 
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Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I didn't know that... sounds like a pretty handy device. Interesting
that -- despite the high quality and availability of DivX -- it looks like
most of the commercial world is heading towards MPEG-4 as the successor to
MPEG-2.
More and more of the DVD players now support DivX (are under license from
www.divx.com ).
It started with the Kiss player, but Philips seems to have an agreement, and
more players are out.
These are still a bit more expensive.
www.vcdhelp.com enter your requirements, will show which players can do what.
As to the price, it is very hard to make anything anymore.
Complete TVs with teletext are in the shops here for around 200 Euro.
Only for the highly specialized things perhaps.
Mpeg4 is a 'container' format.
Soon it will be solid state, the 2GB flash cards etc....
Great for in video cameras, you can record 3 hours on that...
No more mechanics... very reliable :)
Jan
 
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