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Motorcycle Flasher Issue

Discussion in 'Sensors and Actuators' started by gturbo7, Oct 27, 2012.

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  1. Mongrel Shark

    Mongrel Shark

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    Jun 6, 2012
    LOL. Chris My click click switch hypothesis is probably good though.
    Most people don't seem to want to know how stuff works. The logic seems to go like this:
    Its about the same size as a relay. looks a little like one, sounds a lot like one. stuf turns on or off every time it clicks. Works just like a relay. Must be a relay of some kind.

    That seems to be good enough for most people.

    While I figured you knew how it worked more than I, I found the link helpful and enlightening. I learned something. Including two new names for a flasher cam... Both of which are more descriptive. I didn't find much helpful stuff when I googled bi-metal switch, or half a dozen other things. like flasher relay, So I mentioned another descriptive name for the device. I posed the link, A, so as to have less to debate, B, So any others could learn as I did, should they have the need or want.. As it was about the only one on google that actually described how it worked.
     
  2. Mongrel Shark

    Mongrel Shark

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    Jun 6, 2012
    Coca cola. Isn't that what I just said?


    I'll repeat myself anyway.

    Perhaps it make more sense now I added the other bracket?

    The article you linked to seems to say the same thing. 90% of the interference in vehicles is em not r. Radio interference is mostly used in that page as an example for laypeople that don't understand Em theory.

    Again I repeat

    .

    In this case ditch the old solid core wires (HV leads, and the blinkers which may have1/2/3 or more core strands but are probably solid) and look into a less interfering hv driver for the spark. This will most likely result in fuel savings, as well as possibly sort out other electrical problems the bike may have.

    Its a common fix. Many people stick with the old coil as long as they can then wonder why they did after fitting a quality aftermarket one, designed for the system, which pretty much improves everything. Maybe even more power from less fuel. Modern electronics can do wonders for old magnetos.
     
  3. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    May 8, 2012
    Not to beat the subject to death, but it's worth noting that Marconi's transmitter was in fact a spark transmitter. I listen to AM radio because I'm a political hound. I know when a thunderstorm is approaching long before it's on top of me. I also know when my neighbor cranks up his Harley. ;)

    Come to think of it, I know when he starts the Harley even when my radio is off! :D

    Chris
     
  4. Mongrel Shark

    Mongrel Shark

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    Jun 6, 2012
    So you can stop the thunderstorm/Harley (not much difference :D) Interference buy placing the radio in an alloy box, and just have the antenna sticking out? And maybe speaker wires so you can hear it?

    Seems to me you'd have to have the entire circuit inside the box, which would have to be big enough for you to get in too, so you can hear it... But that might affect reception :D


    Don't a lot of Harley motors have points? Not sure about the newer water cooled ones. Never even worked on an older one (push rods are not my idea of performance), But I'm pretty sure a lot have points. I know a lot of people ditch them, But its standard I think. A number of how to set you points on a Harley guides confirms my theory. Macaroni's radio was not dissimilar to a point ignition system. Since semiconductors came about, there isn't a real "Need" for spark gaps like points anymore. Reduced RF is one of the main advantages... Leaving just the electro magnetic kind to worry about...


    (totally off topic, but ever looked up how many of the parts in that radio where patented, and read the patents. I have :D, was a very interesting and informative read, I only wish more of the details stuck in my feeble brain)
     
  5. Mongrel Shark

    Mongrel Shark

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    Jun 6, 2012
    The spark at the cylinder head is already in a big steal enclosure, Adding a few extra mm of metal might not have a big effect...


    You could try a few layers of tin foil first maybe? if that works go ahead and buy the box...
     
  6. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

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    May 8, 2012
    First off, the last thing I want to do is disable my early warning system. Secondly, this assumes that the lightning's signal enters the radio at a point other than the antenna. Actually and depending how Strong the signal is, it enters via the antenna, IF, etc. A lightning discharge creates strong harmonic frequencies well up into the VHF bands.

    When the spark plug fires the spark plug wire will radiate this rapidly changing current like an antenna. In my mind the radiated signal doesn't look that much different than that of lightning. It's rapidly rising and falling, thus rich with harmonics. It's been many years since I saw this product but there was a company that made a very expensive ignition noise kit. The HV wires were shielded. The coil was also, as was the distributor. That said, things get fuzzy for me now and then. For all I know I saw this in a military vehicle.

    Chris
     
  7. gturbo7

    gturbo7

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    Oct 27, 2012
    UPDATE --- I unbolted all of the turn signals from the bike and tried just connecting one to the circuit but right near the battery. It still did the same flickering. I then bypassed the path from the relay up through the switch and back to the light by just attaching the led straight to the relay. This worked. This was with the battery completely disconnected from the bike still, with the bike running. Next I bolted the leds to the bike while still bypassing the switch and it still worked. I had jumper wires running from the under the seat where the battery and flasher circuit is to the front and rear of the bike. When I first started the bike after bolting the leds back on it was back to flickering, but i noticed one of the jumper wires was resting against the engine block, as soon as I pulled it a few inches away from the block the turn signals began working as they should. I don't know if this means it is EMI or RF, but I think I'm going to try to find some shielded wire and wire it up with a separate switch and the two relays that disconnect the battery from the bike when the turn signal circuit is activated and see if it works.
     
  8. Mongrel Shark

    Mongrel Shark

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    Jun 6, 2012
    It means it's EM. Rf would travel further than a few mm away from metal bits. (technically you have both em and rf, as you can't really have one without the other, although your test shows EM is whats causing the problem.) The after market Ignition system that is most likely available for you model, and suggested by Myself (A few posts back) and CDrive (in the post 2 up from here, No it's not just a military add on, quite common.) Will likely improve the problem a lot. I highly recommend contacting an enthusiasts (for you exact make and model if possible) club for tips here. as they will have tried lots of options over the years. and will save you some serious trial and error testing.

    Although the cable re-rout might fix it to your satisfaction.

    I would think you could still use the original switch block, as long as the wires are routed away from interference (can be harder than it sounds, unless your ok with taping them to the tank).


    Either you re-rout and or shield affected wires. Or you shield/remove the EM problem with a kit, or shielded wire's or move the ignition (least recommended).

    Just moving the wires as you have is the quick easy fix. I'd really recommend the after market ignition stuff though, as it's fairly affordable, and likely to improve economy, performance and lower maintenance. By delivering a better spark with less drain on the magneto/battery..
     
  9. trondyne

    trondyne

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    Oct 17, 2012
    What about just running one or more chokes in the line? Can be made with a ferrite ring.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2012
  10. gturbo7

    gturbo7

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    Oct 27, 2012
    I haven't found a dpdt relay that will work with 6v yet to complete my dual relay wiring. I tried a couple 12v relays that I had laying around but they have a pull in voltage of about 6.5v. How does the choke work?
     
  11. CDRIVE

    CDRIVE Hauling 10' pipe on a Trek Shift3

    4,960
    648
    May 8, 2012
    You can use a 5V model with a dropping resistor is series with the coil.

    http://www.mpja.com/Mechanical-Relays/products/134/

    Chris
     
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