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Monitoring Alarms by Beeper

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Celso Lujan, Jan 17, 2005.

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  1. Celso Lujan

    Celso Lujan Guest

    We build alarm systems with an embedded computer system. This give us
    the ability to monitor alarms by programming the system in one of two ways:

    1. The computer dials (modem hookup) our central office and the alarm is
    encoded where the calling number would apprear on the beeper. All
    clients have their unique numerical ID on the beeper call as well as the
    numbers indicating the alarm points. Once the alarm shows up on the
    beeper we look at the video cameras to determine the reason for the
    alarm. Turns out 99% of alarms are false.

    2. We can program the number to call to be anything; hence, the client
    can choose to monitor his own facility. Since everthing is on the
    internet, cameras and other pertinent information can be obtained by
    either us or the client.

    Both approaches seen to work well. Has anyone used similar systems and
    how reliable are they? We have never lost the ability to dial and
    connect to the receiving beeper (which is suprising since QWEST is the
    telephone provider in this area) ; however, we have had a few occasions
    where we have lost connection to the internet.

    Any insights out there?

    Our site can be viewed at:

    URL http://www.lujansoft.com
    EMail:

    If you want to view an on-line access control systems, type the
    following in the location bar of your browser:

    http://206.206.97.135:5801

    When it prompts you for the password it is "acasdemo".

    Thank you very much for your insights.

    Celso Lujan, President
    Lujan Software Services, Inc.
     
  2. The problem I see with panels dialing beepers is that it's a blind data dump.


    | We build alarm systems with an embedded computer system. This give us
    | the ability to monitor alarms by programming the system in one of two ways:
    |
    | 1. The computer dials (modem hookup) our central office and the alarm is
    | encoded where the calling number would apprear on the beeper. All
    | clients have their unique numerical ID on the beeper call as well as the
    | numbers indicating the alarm points. Once the alarm shows up on the
    | beeper we look at the video cameras to determine the reason for the
    | alarm. Turns out 99% of alarms are false.
    |
    | 2. We can program the number to call to be anything; hence, the client
    | can choose to monitor his own facility. Since everthing is on the
    | internet, cameras and other pertinent information can be obtained by
    | either us or the client.
    |
    | Both approaches seen to work well. Has anyone used similar systems and
    | how reliable are they? We have never lost the ability to dial and
    | connect to the receiving beeper (which is suprising since QWEST is the
    | telephone provider in this area) ; however, we have had a few occasions
    | where we have lost connection to the internet.
    |
    | Any insights out there?
    |
    | Our site can be viewed at:
    |
    | URL http://www.lujansoft.com
    | EMail:
    |
    | If you want to view an on-line access control systems, type the
    | following in the location bar of your browser:
    |
    | http://206.206.97.135:5801
    |
    | When it prompts you for the password it is "acasdemo".
    |
    | Thank you very much for your insights.
    |
    | Celso Lujan, President
    | Lujan Software Services, Inc.
    |
     
  3. The problem I see with panels dialing
    Some folks just don't want monitoring service. No matter what the alarm
    salesman says, they've made up their minds. I figure if it's a choice
    between using a voice / pager dialer and nothing at all, better they at
    least send a page.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
  4. Celso Lujan

    Celso Lujan Guest

    I agree with you Norm. My customer base splits about 35% want to do
    their own monitoring, and I set them up for it. The rest want the
    service to be provided by someone else because they don't want to be
    bothered for whatever reason. In studying the problem, I have
    determined that the larger the facility the more apt they are to want
    outside monitoring service. In either case we can provide either solution.

    Our monitoring is based on facility. A one office facility consists of
    one office. Facilities with multiple tenents would share the cost of
    monitoring (both video and alarm) amoung the tenents. By doing it this
    way the monthy rate for monitoring can get quite inexpensive for each
    tenent, and that is problably why the larger facilities prefer to use
    LSS, Inc. for providing these services.

    We currently charge $75/mo for each facility. Seems like this price is
    very agreeable with the customer base; however, I believe it could be
    higher, though I haven't tried it.

    Celso Lujan:



    Celso Lujan;
     
  5. Norm Mugford

    Norm Mugford Guest

    Mr. Bass said...."Some folks just don't want monitoring service.
    No matter what the alarm salesman says, they've made up their minds".

    Another one of Mr. Bass's lies....

    Because he can't sell monitoring in Florida; He's not licensed.
    So anything he can say to knock monitoring is an unlicensed/unprofessional
    opinion......


    Norm Mugford
     
  6. I have several industrial / commercail customers were it is critical they
    know single or three phase power loss or heat/ cold loss or liquid level
    loss or increase etc.
    alarm is set to call central station and several pagers because people are
    mobile and there liable to be out of mobile range with the hills here but
    pager always gets to them.
    this feature comes in particularly handy when central station is getting
    hammered with ac loss signals.
    It also is handy for my customers who have onsite maintnance and guards.
    They can immediately respond with out the delay of central station calling
    there phones
    the central at this point is a back up .
    I have used the onboard pagers in ademco panels and the USP dialers for this
    purpose.
    And it has saved my customers thousands of dollars in damage.
    I also have the radio stationI take care and critical clients of mine come
    directly to my pager and central station for same reason because of spotty
    cell phone coverage.or if central station gets smacked during a storm with
    signals.
    I try to design my systems with false alarm prevention in mind
    but unfortunately some of the other dealers do not.

    --
    Nick Markowitz Jr.
    Owner
    Markowitz Electic Protection
    Private Industry Fire Investigator.
    Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
    Registered EPA Freon Recovery

    Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
    Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
    Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
    Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
    Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

    "To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

    Irish Diplomacy

    The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
    going to enjoy the trip.
     
  7. Celso Lujan

    Celso Lujan Guest

    To all interested parties:

    I am trying to get a blogger discussion going at

    http://clujan.blogspot.com

    I would like to concentrate on the elimination of false alarms. The
    blog page is in reality an open forum for the exchange of ideas. False
    alarms is a good place to start because the police departments are being
    overrun with responding to these alarms. If the blog page serves as a
    forum to ease the police department's job, it is well worth the effort.
    It could also serve to make us all better suppliers of these systems. I
    don't want to compete with this group; however, i would like to make the
    blog page a much more technical discussion group. If anyone is
    interested visit the blog page. I have initiated it with the first
    message, and would like to see the contributions of others become a part
    of the page.

    My background is BS Mathematics from New Mexico State University, and
    graduate work in Physics from the same institution. I have a lot to
    contribute in electronics, optics, and system configurations (software
    and hardware)

    Hope to see you there.

    Celso Lujan, President
    Lujan Software Services, Inc.
     
  8. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    How exactly is that a lie tho? I know several people who feel that way
     
  9. Mr. Bass said...."Some folks just don't want
    Hmm. Mr. Mugford believes that *all* folks want monitoring service???
    That's right. Since I don't install in Florida and I don't make sales calls
    in anyone's homes in Florida, I don't need a Florida license. The state of
    Florida, in its infinite wisdom, decided that they have no interest in
    services rendered to clients outside the state of Florida.
    I didn't "knock" monitoring. I stated that some folks don't want the
    service. Mugford seems to think that is a lie. I guess he believes that
    there isn't a soul on the planet who doesn't want monitoring service. Heh,
    heh, heh... :^)

    FTR, I happen to sell monitoring service. It's right on my website for all
    to see. I guess Mr. Mugford lied. I'm not sure whether his lie was a
    licensed lie, a professional lie or just an amateur lie, but either way it
    was a lied.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
  10. I agree with you Norm...

    You agree that Mugford's statement, "some folks don't want monitoring" is a
    lie?
    I assume that by "someone else" you mean your firm's monitoring service.
    That is not surprising, except for the percentage split. During the 24
    years I ran a small central station alarm company more than 90% our
    customers wanted monitoring service.
    We do the same thing, except that I no longer offer installation services.
    I sell to DIYers and (lately) a few small dealers. In that market the
    percentages are reversed. Most do not want monitoring. Some do. I
    accomodate both. The key to success in today's marketplace is to provide
    solutions that fit your clients' requirements.
    If you offer remote video monitoring, I may have an occasional lead for you.
    Every so often we get clients who need that kind of service.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
  11. Norm Mugford

    Norm Mugford Guest

    Most of my customers want monitoring, and from the amount
    of monitored customers in the world, I would say that is the Norm....
    1 out of every 50 installs we do, refuses monitoring. And the customer
    is told up front that monitoring is not a requirement to have a
    system installed, unlike a lot of my competitors.

    Norm Mugford
     
  12. We run a little bit lower ratio...maybe 85-90% of installs are monitored. Usually, the client is so happy to find a company that WILL install a quality un-monitored alarm system, that halfway though the install they're asking more specific questions about monitoring. These guys will convert to monitored on the spot or within the next month or so. No pressure sales, friendly contracts, careful installers...makes a big difference. I even get locals calling to get monitored that we installed years ago.


    | Most of my customers want monitoring, and from the amount
    | of monitored customers in the world, I would say that is the Norm....
    | 1 out of every 50 installs we do, refuses monitoring. And the customer
    | is told up front that monitoring is not a requirement to have a
    | system installed, unlike a lot of my competitors.
    |
    | Norm Mugford
    |
    |
    |
    |
    | | > > Mr. Bass said...."Some folks just don't want
    | > > monitoring service. No matter what the alarm
    | > > salesman says, they've made up their minds".
    | > >
    | > > Another one of Mr. Bass's lies....
    | >
    | > Hmm. Mr. Mugford believes that *all* folks want monitoring service???
    | >
    | > > Because he can't sell monitoring in Florida;
    | > > He's not licensed...
    | >
    | > That's right. Since I don't install in Florida and I don't make sales
    | calls
    | > in anyone's homes in Florida, I don't need a Florida license. The state
    | of
    | > Florida, in its infinite wisdom, decided that they have no interest in
    | > services rendered to clients outside the state of Florida.
    | >
    | > > So anything he can say to knock monitoring
    | > > is an unlicensed/unprofessional opinion......
    | >
    | > I didn't "knock" monitoring. I stated that some folks don't want the
    | > service. Mugford seems to think that is a lie. I guess he believes that
    | > there isn't a soul on the planet who doesn't want monitoring service.
    | Heh,
    | > heh, heh... :^)
    | >
    | > FTR, I happen to sell monitoring service. It's right on my website for
    | all
    | > to see. I guess Mr. Mugford lied. I'm not sure whether his lie was a
    | > licensed lie, a professional lie or just an amateur lie, but either way it
    | > was a lied.
    | >
    | > --
    | >
    | > Regards,
    | > Robert L Bass
    | >
    | > =============================>
    | > Bass Home Electronics
    | > 2291 Pine View Circle
    | > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    | > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    | > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    | > =============================>
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
    |
     
  13. jackcsg

    jackcsg Guest

    I bet if you did a survey on those 10 to 15% they would value spending
    $26.95 a month on their AOL dial-up service as more important. Just a hunch
    though.....

    Jack

    We run a little bit lower ratio...maybe 85-90% of installs are monitored.
    Usually, the client is so happy to find a company that WILL install a
    quality un-monitored alarm system, that halfway though the install they're
    asking more specific questions about monitoring. These guys will convert to
    monitored on the spot or within the next month or so. No pressure sales,
    friendly contracts, careful installers...makes a big difference. I even get
    locals calling to get monitored that we installed years ago.


    | Most of my customers want monitoring, and from the amount
    | of monitored customers in the world, I would say that is the Norm....
    | 1 out of every 50 installs we do, refuses monitoring. And the customer
    | is told up front that monitoring is not a requirement to have a
    | system installed, unlike a lot of my competitors.
    |
    | Norm Mugford
    |
    |
    |
    |
    | | > > Mr. Bass said...."Some folks just don't want
    | > > monitoring service. No matter what the alarm
    | > > salesman says, they've made up their minds".
    | > >
    | > > Another one of Mr. Bass's lies....
    | >
    | > Hmm. Mr. Mugford believes that *all* folks want monitoring service???
    | >
    | > > Because he can't sell monitoring in Florida;
    | > > He's not licensed...
    | >
    | > That's right. Since I don't install in Florida and I don't make sales
    | calls
    | > in anyone's homes in Florida, I don't need a Florida license. The state
    | of
    | > Florida, in its infinite wisdom, decided that they have no interest in
    | > services rendered to clients outside the state of Florida.
    | >
    | > > So anything he can say to knock monitoring
    | > > is an unlicensed/unprofessional opinion......
    | >
    | > I didn't "knock" monitoring. I stated that some folks don't want the
    | > service. Mugford seems to think that is a lie. I guess he believes
    that
    | > there isn't a soul on the planet who doesn't want monitoring service.
    | Heh,
    | > heh, heh... :^)
    | >
    | > FTR, I happen to sell monitoring service. It's right on my website for
    | all
    | > to see. I guess Mr. Mugford lied. I'm not sure whether his lie was a
    | > licensed lie, a professional lie or just an amateur lie, but either way
    it
    | > was a lied.
    | >
    | > --
    | >
    | > Regards,
    | > Robert L Bass
    | >
    | > =============================>
    | > Bass Home Electronics
    | > 2291 Pine View Circle
    | > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    | > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    | > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    | > =============================>
    | >
    | >
    |
    |
    |
     
  14. False Alarms are not a problem when systems are properly designed and
    installed and end users properly trained. It doesnt take a blog it takes
    some one reading the damm instructions and doing good quality work and you
    can knockout 98% of the falses proven fact.

    --
    Nick Markowitz Jr.
    Owner
    Markowitz Electic Protection
    Private Industry Fire Investigator.
    Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
    Registered EPA Freon Recovery

    Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
    Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
    Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
    Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
    Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.

    "To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"

    Irish Diplomacy

    The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
    going to enjoy the trip.
     
  15. I use the 'refrigerator analogy' when selling alarms and monitoring.


    | I bet if you did a survey on those 10 to 15% they would value spending
    | $26.95 a month on their AOL dial-up service as more important. Just a hunch
    | though.....
    |
    | Jack
    |
    | | We run a little bit lower ratio...maybe 85-90% of installs are monitored.
    | Usually, the client is so happy to find a company that WILL install a
    | quality un-monitored alarm system, that halfway though the install they're
    | asking more specific questions about monitoring. These guys will convert to
    | monitored on the spot or within the next month or so. No pressure sales,
    | friendly contracts, careful installers...makes a big difference. I even get
    | locals calling to get monitored that we installed years ago.
    |
    |
    | | | Most of my customers want monitoring, and from the amount
    | | of monitored customers in the world, I would say that is the Norm....
    | | 1 out of every 50 installs we do, refuses monitoring. And the customer
    | | is told up front that monitoring is not a requirement to have a
    | | system installed, unlike a lot of my competitors.
    | |
    | | Norm Mugford
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | |
    | | | | > > Mr. Bass said...."Some folks just don't want
    | | > > monitoring service. No matter what the alarm
    | | > > salesman says, they've made up their minds".
    | | > >
    | | > > Another one of Mr. Bass's lies....
    | | >
    | | > Hmm. Mr. Mugford believes that *all* folks want monitoring service???
    | | >
    | | > > Because he can't sell monitoring in Florida;
    | | > > He's not licensed...
    | | >
    | | > That's right. Since I don't install in Florida and I don't make sales
    | | calls
    | | > in anyone's homes in Florida, I don't need a Florida license. The state
    | | of
    | | > Florida, in its infinite wisdom, decided that they have no interest in
    | | > services rendered to clients outside the state of Florida.
    | | >
    | | > > So anything he can say to knock monitoring
    | | > > is an unlicensed/unprofessional opinion......
    | | >
    | | > I didn't "knock" monitoring. I stated that some folks don't want the
    | | > service. Mugford seems to think that is a lie. I guess he believes
    | that
    | | > there isn't a soul on the planet who doesn't want monitoring service.
    | | Heh,
    | | > heh, heh... :^)
    | | >
    | | > FTR, I happen to sell monitoring service. It's right on my website for
    | | all
    | | > to see. I guess Mr. Mugford lied. I'm not sure whether his lie was a
    | | > licensed lie, a professional lie or just an amateur lie, but either way
    | it
    | | > was a lied.
    | | >
    | | > --
    | | >
    | | > Regards,
    | | > Robert L Bass
    | | >
    | | > =============================>
    | | > Bass Home Electronics
    | | > 2291 Pine View Circle
    | | > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    | | > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    | | > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    | | > =============================>
    | | >
    | | >
    | |
    | |
    | |
    |
    |
     
  16. AND...keeping an eye on alarm reports everyday..then following up...was it user-error or false trip...do you need service...do you need a refresher course in system operations?

    Its more diligence and caring about clients than it is about equipment and contracts.

    We always place within the top 10 alarm companies with the lowest false alarm rate in the area...it's not magic, or rocket science or even equipment.



    | False Alarms are not a problem when systems are properly designed and
    | installed and end users properly trained. It doesnt take a blog it takes
    | some one reading the damm instructions and doing good quality work and you
    | can knockout 98% of the falses proven fact.
    |
    | --
    | Nick Markowitz Jr.
    | Owner
    | Markowitz Electic Protection
    | Private Industry Fire Investigator.
    | Qualified Electrical- Fire Alarm Contractor
    | Registered EPA Freon Recovery
    |
    | Contributing Editor Pa. Firemans Magazine
    | Staff Editor www.securitymission.com
    | Senior Correspondant www.1strespondernews.com
    | Exclusive Correspondant www.nbfd.us
    | Contract Broadcast Engineer WAVL 910 AM apollo Pa.
    |
    | "To error is human to realy foul things up requires a computer"
    |
    | Irish Diplomacy
    |
    | The ability to tell a man to go to hell and he tells you how much he is
    | going to enjoy the trip.
    | | > Celso Lujan wrote:
    | > > We build alarm systems with an embedded computer system. This give us
    | > > the ability to monitor alarms by programming the system in one of two
    | ways:
    | > >
    | > > 1. The computer dials (modem hookup) our central office and the alarm is
    | > > encoded where the calling number would apprear on the beeper. All
    | > > clients have their unique numerical ID on the beeper call as well as the
    | > > numbers indicating the alarm points. Once the alarm shows up on the
    | > > beeper we look at the video cameras to determine the reason for the
    | > > alarm. Turns out 99% of alarms are false.
    | > >
    | > > 2. We can program the number to call to be anything; hence, the client
    | > > can choose to monitor his own facility. Since everthing is on the
    | > > internet, cameras and other pertinent information can be obtained by
    | > > either us or the client.
    | > >
    | > > Both approaches seen to work well. Has anyone used similar systems and
    | > > how reliable are they? We have never lost the ability to dial and
    | > > connect to the receiving beeper (which is suprising since QWEST is the
    | > > telephone provider in this area) ; however, we have had a few occasions
    | > > where we have lost connection to the internet.
    | > >
    | > > Any insights out there?
    | > >
    | > > Our site can be viewed at:
    | > >
    | > > URL http://www.lujansoft.com
    | > > EMail:
    | > >
    | > > If you want to view an on-line access control systems, type the
    | > > following in the location bar of your browser:
    | > >
    | > > http://206.206.97.135:5801
    | > >
    | > > When it prompts you for the password it is "acasdemo".
    | > >
    | > > Thank you very much for your insights.
    | > >
    | > > Celso Lujan, President
    | > > Lujan Software Services, Inc.
    | > >
    | > To all interested parties:
    | >
    | > I am trying to get a blogger discussion going at
    | >
    | > http://clujan.blogspot.com
    | >
    | > I would like to concentrate on the elimination of false alarms. The
    | > blog page is in reality an open forum for the exchange of ideas. False
    | > alarms is a good place to start because the police departments are being
    | > overrun with responding to these alarms. If the blog page serves as a
    | > forum to ease the police department's job, it is well worth the effort.
    | > It could also serve to make us all better suppliers of these systems. I
    | > don't want to compete with this group; however, i would like to make the
    | > blog page a much more technical discussion group. If anyone is
    | > interested visit the blog page. I have initiated it with the first
    | > message, and would like to see the contributions of others become a part
    | > of the page.
    | >
    | > My background is BS Mathematics from New Mexico State University, and
    | > graduate work in Physics from the same institution. I have a lot to
    | > contribute in electronics, optics, and system configurations (software
    | > and hardware)
    | >
    | > Hope to see you there.
    | >
    | > Celso Lujan, President
    | > Lujan Software Services, Inc.
    | >
    |
    |
     
  17. Most of my customers want monitoring, and from the amount
    Oh, so you lied in your earlier post to this thread? OK, thanks for
    explaining that.
     
  18. I bet if you did a survey on those 10 to 15%
    There's a reason for that and dealers who understand it can increase their
    sales. Many people will gladly pay a monthly fee for something which they
    use every day -- a service whose benefits they *notice* on a regular basis.
    Someone who uses the Internet very regularly is more likely to be willing to
    part with $50-60 a month for broadband than the occasional user.

    What that means to the security dealer is that you can sell more monitoring
    and retain a higher percentage of your accounts if you make a conscientious
    effort to keep them aware of the service's ongoing benefits. Some large
    dealers include success stories -- burglar arrests, saved lives, fires
    stopped, etc -- in their monthly or quarterly newsletters. Talk about other
    services you offer, such as monitoring water leak or low temperature alarms,
    especially as winter approaches each year. Remind business owners o0f the
    benefits of supervised opening and closing reports.

    If you make the effort to make and keep your clients aware of the benefit of
    monitoring you can sell more monitoring accounts and keep them longer.

    Best of luck.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
  19. I use the 'refrigerator analogy'...

    Huh???
     
  20. G. Morgan

    G. Morgan Guest

    Subject: Re: Monitoring Alarms by Beeper
    Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms

    And you want to be my latex salesman!?!

    Anyway... I'll educate you.

    The 'refrigerator analogy', sometimes referred to as the 'refrigerator close' is
    when the customer is struggling with the price you just presented. That's when
    you point to the fridge in their house and ask "nice fridge, what did you pay
    for it?"... The customer replies with a figure... let's say $1500..

    Then you ask him how much money worth a groceries are inside. They reply back
    with another figure, say $300.

    Then comes the whammie.... "So, Mr. Basshole, you spent $1500 to protect $300
    worth of food, but you won't spend $3000 to protect your most valuable asset,
    your home?"
     
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