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Moisture Content Meter for Wool

M

Manvinder Bhullar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi All,
I am writing to this group for advice, as I know there are many
helpful people here who have a diverse range of experience and hope
that someone might know the answer to the following problem.

I have a friend who has a factory processing wool into worsted. I am
not very familiar with his process (he described it over the phone),
so I hope my description of the process is correct:

As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

Anyone know of such a device already available on the market or how to
make one?

Thanks
Manvinder Bhullar
 
A

Adrian Jansen

Jan 1, 1970
0
Google will give you many hits for moisture meter. Some of them will be
useful.

--
Regards,

Adrian Jansen
J & K MicroSystems
Microcomputer solutions for industrial control
 
T

The Real Andy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Adrian Jansen said:
Google will give you many hits for moisture meter. Some of them will be
useful.

They are mostly lab balances (scale) with a halogen lamp in them + a bit.
Dear as poisen though.
 
K

Ken Taylor

Jan 1, 1970
0
Manvinder Bhullar said:
Hi All,
I am writing to this group for advice, as I know there are many
helpful people here who have a diverse range of experience and hope
that someone might know the answer to the following problem.

I have a friend who has a factory processing wool into worsted. I am
not very familiar with his process (he described it over the phone),
so I hope my description of the process is correct:

As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

Anyone know of such a device already available on the market or how to
make one?

Thanks
Manvinder Bhullar

This company already does a lot of wool automation products and may be able
to help:
http://www.modra.com.au/

Cheers.

Ken
 
R

Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

One idea:
Send microwave radiation through it.
As we know from microwave ovens water absorbs microwave radiation.
The microwave receiver at the other side of the wood will tell you how
much water there is in it.
Of couse, it helps if the wood always has the same physical
dimensions as it moves through this microwave transmitter-receiver
device.
If he changes to another thickness of planks the receiver will give
another value for the same water content.
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi All,
I am writing to this group for advice, as I know there are many
helpful people here who have a diverse range of experience and hope
that someone might know the answer to the following problem.

I have a friend who has a factory processing wool into worsted. I am
not very familiar with his process (he described it over the phone),
so I hope my description of the process is correct:

As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

Anyone know of such a device already available on the market or how to
make one?

Thanks
Manvinder Bhullar

This may not be much help, but I know that boat surveyors have moisture
meters for measuring the moisture content of wooden-hulled boats.

good luck!

Mac
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Mac said:
This may not be much help, but I know that boat surveyors have moisture
meters for measuring the moisture content of wooden-hulled boats.

good luck!

Mac

I think a capacitive measuring device may do the job; the moisture
would change the capacitance and loss factor as well.
If one built a meter around this idea, it would have to be tested and
calibrated with known samples.
I am sure there are industrial devices for that; use google.
 
J

John Popelish

Jan 1, 1970
0
Manvinder said:
Hi All,
I am writing to this group for advice, as I know there are many
helpful people here who have a diverse range of experience and hope
that someone might know the answer to the following problem.

I have a friend who has a factory processing wool into worsted. I am
not very familiar with his process (he described it over the phone),
so I hope my description of the process is correct:

As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

Anyone know of such a device already available on the market or how to
make one?

Thanks
Manvinder Bhullar

http://www.grecon-us.com/html/microwave_moisture.htm
http://www.scaletron.com/code/radart.htm
http://www.technical-textiles.net/technical-textiles-index/htm/mt_20020701.956648.htm
http://www.nal.usda.gov/ttic/tektran/data/000008/38/0000083890.html

I found these on Google with the search string
[microwave moisture online].
 
M

Manvinder Bhullar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Roger Johansson said:
One idea:
Send microwave radiation through it.
As we know from microwave ovens water absorbs microwave radiation.
The microwave receiver at the other side of the wood will tell you how
much water there is in it.
Of couse, it helps if the wood always has the same physical
dimensions as it moves through this microwave transmitter-receiver
device.
If he changes to another thickness of planks the receiver will give
another value for the same water content.

Thanks for the advice on the 'wood' moisture measurement but I need
moisture measurement on 'wool' as it exits the steaming process.
Manvinder
 
M

Manvinder Bhullar

Jan 1, 1970
0
The Real Andy said:
They are mostly lab balances (scale) with a halogen lamp in them + a bit.
Dear as poisen though.

Thanks for the reply. Balances are out of the question as you need to
cut out a sample and perform the measurement in a controlled
environment. I need real time measurement of the moisture content of
the wool as it exits the steamer. The wool is in a continuous form,
not in bales, as it exits the steaming process.

Thanks
Manvinder
 
M

Manvinder Bhullar

Jan 1, 1970
0
John Popelish said:

Thanks John. I tried Googling earlier but was totally overwhelmed
since I dont know much about the principles of measuring moisture in
the first place! Your search string is better.

The first link sounds promising and I have written to them now. Am
just wondering about the price though.

Any one has any more ideas?

Thanks
Manvinder
 
R

Roger Johansson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thanks for the advice on the 'wood' moisture measurement but I need
moisture measurement on 'wool' as it exits the steaming process.
Manvinder

It doesn't matter what material it is, as long as the thickness is
fairly constant as it comes out of the steamer.

Don't you understand what you are reading?

Microwave radiation, from for example the circuit from a microwave
oven, can be sent through the material.
A detector at the other side of the material receives the microwave
radiation and indicates its intensity.

The amount of received radiation shows how dry the material is.
If the material is very wet very little radiation can get through.
If the material is very dry practically all radiation gets through it.
 
O

onestone

Jan 1, 1970
0
The impurities in wool mean that the wool will be slightly conductive,
more so when moist, and the conductivity will be proportional to the
moisture content, up to a certain point. Assuming that you can isolate
the wool from surrounding grounded machinery, passing a low voltage
constant current signal of a few microamps between two points on the
wool, a fixed distance apart will give you a fairly accurate reading of
moisture content. The trick will be in applying the current to the wool
as it is drawn.

Al
 
J

James Meyer

Jan 1, 1970
0
The impurities in wool mean that the wool will be slightly conductive,
more so when moist, and the conductivity will be proportional to the
moisture content, up to a certain point. Assuming that you can isolate
the wool from surrounding grounded machinery, passing a low voltage
constant current signal of a few microamps between two points on the
wool, a fixed distance apart will give you a fairly accurate reading of
moisture content. The trick will be in applying the current to the wool
as it is drawn.

Al

During WWII in a response to the U-boat menace the military held a
conference with several top scientists invited. One double-domed attendee
suggested "boiling the ocean". When asked how he intended to do that, he
replied, "I only come up with theories, you have to supply the practical
implementations."

Jim
 
Y

YD

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi All,
I am writing to this group for advice, as I know there are many
helpful people here who have a diverse range of experience and hope
that someone might know the answer to the following problem.

I have a friend who has a factory processing wool into worsted. I am
not very familiar with his process (he described it over the phone),
so I hope my description of the process is correct:

As part of the process, the wool enters a drier to dry it thorougly to
0 % moisture content. At the end of this process, it is steamed to
ensure a moisture content of about 18%. This moisture content has to
be controlled for facilitating the processes that follow.

He is looking for a moisture content meter that would indicate the
moisture content level of the wool, real time, as the wool exits from
the steamer. It is in a continous form and sampling is out of the
question.

Anyone know of such a device already available on the market or how to
make one?

Thanks
Manvinder Bhullar

There are real-time moisture meters for paper machines, I guess
similar principles could apply for your needs. Try Valmet (ex-Sentrol)
and Ray-Tek. Is going to cost you, though.

- YD.
 
Y

YD

Jan 1, 1970
0
It doesn't matter what material it is, as long as the thickness is
fairly constant as it comes out of the steamer.

Don't you understand what you are reading?

Microwave radiation, from for example the circuit from a microwave
oven, can be sent through the material.
A detector at the other side of the material receives the microwave
radiation and indicates its intensity.

The amount of received radiation shows how dry the material is.
If the material is very wet very little radiation can get through.
If the material is very dry practically all radiation gets through it.

Infrared can be used for this. Water absorbs strongly in one band and
practically nothing in another. Measure the reflected radiation
alternating between the absorbed and non-absorbed (as reference)
bands. The ratio can be used to calculate moisture content. This is
how we measure the moisture in the paper web at the mill. Do a search
for Infra-Mike and Infra-Tel. Used to be Sentrol until Valmet bought
them out.

- YD.
 
N

N. Thornton

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 16 Jan 2004 20:40:34 -0800, [email protected] (Manvinder Bhullar)

Hi

If youre looking for a cheap cheap solution, my first attempt would be
to apply maybe 9v to the wool and measure the tiny current through it
with a simple meter.

This brings up the question of how to get curent through the wool. I
might pass the wool over a metal roller split in two halves, or maybe
2 metal rollers close together. Either way you get large contact area,
which smooths out noise and increases the tiny current, and consistent
contact area, which is important if you want the readings to mean
something.

You can calibrate it by running dry wool over it, then running a few
known water content wools over it and drawing your scale.

Once this is done it might later be possible to dispecnse with the
steaming process, and continually electronically adjust the dryer heat
or speed so that the wool comes out the dryer at 18%. Maybe.


Regards, NT
 
N

N. Thornton

Jan 1, 1970
0
Or if you dont mind an 18 second reading settling time you can get
dampness sensors in the catalogues, just run the wool right over one,
with a cover on the underside so the sensor is exposed to the wools
atmosphere only.

Maybe

NT
 
O

onestone

Jan 1, 1970
0
James said:
During WWII in a response to the U-boat menace the military held a
conference with several top scientists invited. One double-domed attendee
suggested "boiling the ocean". When asked how he intended to do that, he
replied, "I only come up with theories, you have to supply the practical
implementations."

Jim

;@}

Not quite the same, I have never seen the physical machine that steams,
and or removes the wool "in continuous form" from the dryer, other wise
I could possibly have made some suggestions.

I'm surprised no Kiwis have answered this one.

Al
 
P

Paul Mathews

Jan 1, 1970
0
This job is routinely done for all kinds of web processes like paper
making, plywood veneer processing, pressboard manufacturing, etc. etc.
As someone mentioned, the usual principle is microwave absorption.
There are commercial instruments to do the job, but you can make your
own. Obtain a microwave transmit/receive pair (Philips Electronics is
one manufacturer). This consists of a pair of horn antennae, one
equipped with an oscillator and the other with a preamp/detector. The
detector output is proportional to signal strength. Connect to an A/D
converter and signal process to your heart's content. Some serious
low pass filtering will get you the average moisture content.

Paul Mathews
 
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