Maker Pro
Maker Pro

Microwave brain scrambler?

D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
] A big dish antenna aobe a false ceiling, and the RF transmitter to
] drive it? A bit harder to hide that a hand-gun, and ripping it out
and
] dumping it off the bridge would be a little more obvious, and leave
] more obvious traces, clown.

A more pertinent point: LET THE EXPERIMENT BE MADE. Experiments
trump any hours of theoretical discussions. Existence proofs are
difficult to defeat. An advanced hobbyist could build one of these
sources and note any odd effects. Just add some pulses in series
with a microwave magnetron's DCHV supply, or perhaps drive the
magnetron with a TC-type spark gap or rotary gap source. The needed
brain-exposure would be brief, and the required wattage is less than
the exposure from older cellphones, or that encountered by Tesla-coil
builders.

Does it work as advertised? If so, then the public idea cannot be
put back into the box, and will no doubt spread like gunpowder, or bow
+arrow, or "hit other apes using a rock."

OTOH, perhaps this thread is actually about the following... "I go
insane whenever I eat at this particular restaurant. Since I cannot
possibly be suffering schitzotype disorders, the actual cause must be
that THE RESTAURANT MANAGEMENT IS AIMING BRAIN-RAYS AT ITS
CLIENTELE!!!!!!"

That's the only possible conclusion, eh? :)
(((((((((((((((((( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb a eskimocom http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

You poor naive fool - the Jewish Nazi Illuminati New World Order has
bought you off, haven't they! No... wait... you're a CIA shill... that's
it! It's so obvious now, and the proof will be you denying all knowledge
of the plot, and sending more harassing brainwaves.

Thank you for your mature, thoughtful consideration of the science
that does exist, gentlemen. :)

Adey, W. Ross, Neurophysiologic Effects of Radiofrequency and Microwave
Radiation, Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, V.55, #11,
December, 1979

Bioelectromagnetics
Volume 5 Issue 1, Pages 71 - 78
Published Online: 19 Oct 2005


--Winston

http://www.neopax.com/technomage/TechnoMageContents.pdf

Chapter 9
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 14/03/2010 05:17, Winston wrote:
(...)


It was for the woman who sued McD for "hot coffee".

I may not have mentioned this but she had evidence.
Photographs of burned skin. Depositions. Opinions from
expert witnesses. 700 prior complaints.

Evidence is very important. It allows you to proceed.

Without evidence, people will be called kooks.

Not that it would happen among open minded scientists
such as ourselves, you understand.

Just generally speaking.

:)

Thanks for your constructive criticism.


--Winston
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
I may not have mentioned this but she had evidence.
Photographs of burned skin. Depositions. Opinions from
expert witnesses. 700 prior complaints.

Evidence is very important. It allows you to proceed.

Without evidence, people will be called kooks.

Not that it would happen among open minded scientists
such as ourselves, you understand.

Just generally speaking.

:)

Thanks for your constructive criticism.


--Winston

For $600k I'd pour hot coffee over my hand.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 3/13/2010 10:32 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

(...)
For $600k I'd pour hot coffee over my hand.

She finally settled for an 'undisclosed sum'.

One gets you 10 that she now owes her lawyer a very large
amount of money.

Is she really the best winner we can find?

:)

--Winston
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
I may not have mentioned this but she had evidence.
Photographs of burned skin. Depositions. Opinions from
expert witnesses. 700 prior complaints.

Evidence is very important. It allows you to proceed.

Without evidence, people will be called kooks.

Not that it would happen among open minded scientists
such as ourselves, you understand.

Just generally speaking.

:)

Thanks for your constructive criticism.


--Winston

A successful conspiracy doesn't work if it relies on several thousand
McBurger managers keeping their mouths shut.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 14/03/2010 06:16, Winston wrote:
(...)



Like I said, I reviewed that paper (and others) years ago.
It does not say what you think it says.

What does the paper say about the effect of (low frequency
amplitude modulated) non-ionizing radiation of specific power
level on neural cells, in your opinion?

Have a look starting on the third paragraph on page 1088 if
you would please. It starts with the line "We repeated these
experiments with radiofrequency signals using sinusoidal
amplitude modulation from 0.5 to 35 Hz. These radiofrequency
fields coupled much more strongly into the tissue."

He relates the movement of calcium ions in the brain
as one of the indicators of natural inter-neural
activity and as a key effect of the modulation
of the non-ionizing radiation used as 'virtual electrodes'
(my phrase, not Dr. Adey's).

See also page 192 where Dr. Adey says "Future research
may indicate that long-term human exposure to signals with
these particular low-frequency characteristics should be
avoided or carefully controlled."

If that isn't a "hacker flag", I don't know what is. :)
And you have been talking about GHz radiation, which can be focussed
quite tightly - thats how radar works.

Yes, the beam-width can be set at design time.

The carrier frequency of the non-ionizing radiation appears to
be unimportant. It is the power density of the radiation and
the modulation waveform impressed upon it that appears to
force brain tissue to respond in lock step, disregarding the
natural neural inputs that are sensed before and after the
customer is denied vision, hearing, consciousness and muscle
control.

Microwaves will merely provide a way to direct the low frequency
manipulation signal away from the manager and towards the customer.

Can you help me understand your point about carrier frequency
and beam width please?

Thanks

--Winston
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
What does the paper say about the effect of (low frequency
amplitude modulated) non-ionizing radiation of specific power
level on neural cells, in your opinion?

Have a look starting on the third paragraph on page 1088 if
you would please. It starts with the line "We repeated these
experiments with radiofrequency signals using sinusoidal
amplitude modulation from 0.5 to 35 Hz. These radiofrequency
fields coupled much more strongly into the tissue."

He relates the movement of calcium ions in the brain
as one of the indicators of natural inter-neural
activity and as a key effect of the modulation
of the non-ionizing radiation used as 'virtual electrodes'
(my phrase, not Dr. Adey's).

See also page 192 where Dr. Adey says "Future research
may indicate that long-term human exposure to signals with
these particular low-frequency characteristics should be
avoided or carefully controlled."

If that isn't a "hacker flag", I don't know what is. :)


Yes, the beam-width can be set at design time.

The carrier frequency of the non-ionizing radiation appears to
be unimportant. It is the power density of the radiation and
the modulation waveform impressed upon it that appears to
force brain tissue to respond in lock step, disregarding the
natural neural inputs that are sensed before and after the
customer is denied vision, hearing, consciousness and muscle
control.

Microwaves will merely provide a way to direct the low frequency
manipulation signal away from the manager and towards the customer.

Can you help me understand your point about carrier frequency
and beam width please?

Thanks

--Winston

First off, Adey is warning about chronic exposure, not acute effects.
Beam spread primarily depends on dish size relative to carrier
wavelength. A low GHz beam can be quite spread limited with a large
dish. That's the basis of conventional microwave communications.

Also, for calcium ion resonance (cyclotron resonance) you also need an
external magnetic field to be matched to the radiation intensity.
Normally, that would be the geomagnetic field which being so weak limits
the effectiveness of the intensity of the carrier. So if you really want
to zap someone, you should place them in a powerful magnetic field to
start with.

A lot of this sort of stuff was investigated by Persinger.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 14/03/2010 05:59, Winston wrote:
(...)


Like you said about the McD hot coffee - the complaints add up and in
this case it would be far less trivial.

You do understand that the victims will not complain because they
will never see any evidence that the transmitter even exists, yes?
What will they have to complain about?

There will be no evidence.
(I may have forgotten to make that point.)

Evidence. <-- The victims will never see it.
And when Mr FBI asks the store
manager what happened, such is his loyalty to the corporation that said
manager will happily go to prison for obstructing the investigation.

Mr. FBI will never be involved. No crimes will be committed because
no law enforcement agency will ever be equipped to detect the
transmitter. Even if you grabbed Eliot Ness by the collar, lifted
a drop ceiling panel and smacked a yardstick on the rim of the
parabolic antenna:
1) He is not going to "officially" know what he's looking at.
2) If he does eventually understand what he is looking at, he can
reasonably point out that there is no law against that gear
in that place and that there is no evidence that it was used
illegitimately.
3) He may reasonably point out the lack of case law defining
microwave attack as 'assault'.
4) If pressed he will point out that the restaurant owner has every
right to defend himself against armed robbers.

This will not be just an 'uphill battle' for honest targets.

It will be impossible for them because no one will ever understand
that the transmitter is in place and being used immorally.
Anyway, the whole scheme of yours is just totally ludicrous from
technical, legal and logistical points of view.

How so? Technically, a slightly larger antenna, higher
carrier frequency and a good sized amplifier are the changes
needed to my original outline. Dare I mention that multiple
transmitters could provide excellent coverage?

Legally, there is no prohibition against burning someone with
a microwave beam (for example).
It is not considered assault and perhaps never will be.

For grins just now, I Googled
("case law" "microwave burn" assault)
Got zero hits. That string is so unusual that it didn't even
show up in any 'word salad' harvesting site.

Logistically, a facilities installer working for cash on the side
could get a packaged system up and running within a couple hours
after arrival.
A total non-starter. If
you think otherwise, mortgage your house, build and test a device and
try and sell it to MacBurger for zapping customers. See you living in a
cardboard box...

I would never do that because the transmitter will represent the darkest
side of human thought.

But mostly I feel that 'sunlight is the best disinfectant'.

Thanks for your thoughts.

--Winston
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
A successful conspiracy doesn't work if it relies on several thousand
McBurger managers keeping their mouths shut.

1) It won't be illegal. Nobody 'conspires' to install doorknobs, for example.
2) By the time legal status is determined, it will be considered a
necessary evil.

Thanks for helping me understand this issue.

--Winston
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 3/13/2010 11:38 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

(...)
First off, Adey is warning about chronic exposure, not acute effects.

Adey demonstrated that modulated non-ionizing radiation can
replace legitimate interneural brain communication with
'garbage input', likely to tax and confuse the unfortunate
owner of said brain. That is a key takeaway.
Beam spread primarily depends on dish size relative to carrier
wavelength. A low GHz beam can be quite spread limited with a large
dish. That's the basis of conventional microwave communications.

And a high GHz beam can be sufficiently spread limited with a
very small dish.
Also, for calcium ion resonance (cyclotron resonance) you also need an
external magnetic field to be matched to the radiation intensity.

Resonance is not necessary. Dr. Adey showed that the
indicator of calcium efflux was caused by modulated non-ionizing radiation.
Normally, that would be the geomagnetic field which being so weak limits
the effectiveness of the intensity of the carrier. So if you really want
to zap someone, you should place them in a powerful magnetic field to
start with.

That isn't necessary or feasible largely due to the inverse cube
nature of magnetic power density.
A lot of this sort of stuff was investigated by Persinger.

A reference! Thank you!

--Winston
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 3/13/2010 11:38 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:

(...)


Adey demonstrated that modulated non-ionizing radiation can
replace legitimate interneural brain communication with
'garbage input', likely to tax and confuse the unfortunate
owner of said brain. That is a key takeaway.

Except it doesn't work in "real life" in any acute form.
And a high GHz beam can be sufficiently spread limited with a
very small dish.


Resonance is not necessary. Dr. Adey showed that the
indicator of calcium efflux was caused by modulated non-ionizing radiation.

In a geomagnetic field, which he did not take note of.
That's why such effects only occur for relatively low power RF. Larger
RF inputs swamp it.
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 3/13/2010 10:29 PM, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
(...)


I conclude that beginning on page 235 of a document you wrote,
you present some opinions regarding electromagnetics.

Good for you. :)

--Winston

It's a survey of the kinds of effects that interest you.
Including ones you have never heard of.
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
To warm the outer surface of the noggin by a fraction of a degree -
9mW isn't a lot of heat and heads are tolerably large radiators.

To produce any electrical activity inside the brain? Almost certainly
not.


How? All you have cited is antiquated late 1970's work. It was crap
when I saw it when it was first published, and it is still crap.


With good reason.


Show some persuasive evidence, or continue to look like someone with
an over-active imagination and little grasp of reality


I have too much of my career looking at nonsense proposals, and yours
does fit the profile.

He's generally thinking of this (google keywords) "calcium ion cyclotron
resonance" eg
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a902120140&db=all
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
On 14/03/2010 08:44, Winston wrote:
(...)


Except it doesn't work in "real life" in any acute form.

That depends on how you define the term 'acute'.

The symptoms *will* occur instantly, for all intents.

The symptoms will not include physical pain of any sort,
let alone 'sharp' or 'intense' pain. Just temporary
blindness, deafness and lack of clinical consciousness.

So in that sense, I agree that the symptoms will not
be properly characterized as 'acute' in all it's meanings.

I am sure it would work exactly as I described it however.

We shall never know. :)

(...)
In a geomagnetic field, which he did not take note of.

I leapt to the conclusion that his tests were conducted under the
influence of Earth's magnetic field, too. Perhaps they were not.
That's why such effects only occur for relatively low power RF. Larger
RF inputs swamp it.

I really have no idea how the phenomenon works.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, Dirk.

--Winston
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
(...)


To warm the outer surface of the noggin by a fraction of a degree -
9mW isn't a lot of heat and heads are tolerably large radiators.

To produce any electrical activity inside the brain? Almost certainly
not.

You are right there, Bill.
I did finally realize that the power density required was much
higher than I originally stated. I did my mea culpa. :)

Still, a slightly bigger antenna, a power amplifier and
Bob's your uncle. I feel that it would work as described
based on Dr. Adey's findings.
How? All you have cited is antiquated late 1970's work. It was crap
when I saw it when it was first published, and it is still crap.


With good reason.


Show some persuasive evidence, or continue to look like someone with
an over-active imagination and little grasp of reality

Those tests, conducted on people would be immoral in my opinion,
given the non-zero possibility of eventual health consequences.
The evidence shown by Dr. Adey's tests prove that normal
neural activity is replaced by noisy, abnormal neural activity
under the influence of an RF field of specific power, amplitude
modulated by a waveform of specific frequency.

We can reasonably agree to disagree on anything, including this. :)

(...)
I have too much of my career looking at nonsense proposals, and yours
does fit the profile.


You know what they say about opinions. I have one too. :)

Thanks for your attention.

--Winston
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's a survey of the kinds of effects that interest you.
Including ones you have never heard of.

It must be very efficiently worded.
I saw only titles and page numbers in that document.

Thanks for your attention to this, Dirk.


--Winston
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
That depends on how you define the term 'acute'.

The symptoms *will* occur instantly, for all intents.

No.
Hours to days.
 
D

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Jan 1, 1970
0
It must be very efficiently worded.
I saw only titles and page numbers in that document.

Then you will have to buy the book when its available.
 
W

Winston

Jan 1, 1970
0
One that presumably doesn't contain active trade unions, for a start.

Yes, they all died decades ago for all intents and purposes.
You are out of your mind. The "nailer" is the disgrunteled employee
who uses your mythical electro-magneitc weapon to "nail" the manager

Without access to the control panel in the manager's
office, how is the employee to do that? Zapping someone
with this weapon will not be illegal or immoral based on our
current beliefs. Breaking and entering is both, if the
employee is not acting on behalf of a well placed corporate sponsor.
In that case he has carte blanche to do whatever he can get
away with.

Not a myth, but a comic-book hero, and totally irrelevant here.

Good. We agree that innocent customers will have no one to represent
their interests.
That may be your idea of a high profile case. People with a better
grip on reality would differ.

High profile cases are not brought by powerless individuals unless
they can provide proof to a much more powerful entity that *it's*
nose is being pushed into the dirt.

Until an FBI agent gets zapped, no one will care.
After an FBI agent gets zapped, there will be hell to pay. :)

The Clinton administration went after Microsoft.

Joe Shmoe, hapless sandwich shop customer does not have quite the legal
weight behind him that the Clinton DoJ had. Can we agree on that?

For which implausible claim you advance what evidence?

The science conducted by Dr. Adey outlined in the article
I have been citing for the last few days.
If we use your over-fertile imagination as a test-bed.

I invite you to look at Dr. Adey's findings and try with
the best of your ability to believe that the effects he
demonstrated would leave brain cells completely unaffected.

Stick somebody elses head in a microwave and disable the door safety
interlock, and you will find out that your action is considered both
immoral and in poor taste.

Of course. I would too.
I am governed by a finely tuned sense of 'right and wrong'.
Also the law, because I am a powerless Joe Shmoe. :)

Our zappers will be folks that have no moral compass and no
compunction against breaking laws at will.
For them, there is no moral violation and no law to be broken.
The humour resides in your belief that you are describing a
practicable system.

We will never know, one way or the other.
Drug dealers sell drugs that are grown and imported illegally. Your
business couldn't support an "off the books" electronic inustry.

Sure it would. I Googled ("plant maintenance" company) just now.
874,000 hits. Any one of them would be more than happy to read
the simple installation instructions and make the transmitter
fully operational, in compliance with all codes.
Your financial records - notably payments for electronic hardware -
would give the game away.

You do understand that there is no law against installation or
operation of the transmitter, yes? There will be nothing to
investigate.
Imaginary fact by invented misconception.

I still have my opinion, too. :)

We're not going to convince each other but I do appreciate
your perspective on this topic.


--Winston
 
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