Microwave brain scrambler?

[Winston]

Could you use amplitude modulated microwaves to disable a bad guy?

Picture this:
A robber enters a restaurant, swings a pistol around and demands money.

Secreted in the ceiling of the dining room is a microwave transmitter
equipped with a parabolic dish that can be aimed to cover any portion
of the eating area.

The manager, monitoring the situation from his office, aims the
transmitter at the robber, dials in an appropriate power
level and pushes the 'go' button. The pulses of microwave power
mimic and disrupt normal brain activity through calcium efflux,
paralyzing the bad guy until police arrive.

The science appears solid. Have a look at:

Adey, W. Ross, Neurophysiologic Effects of Radiofrequency and Microwave
Radiation, Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, V.55, #11, December, 1979

Bioelectromagnetics
Volume 5 Issue 1, Pages 71 - 78
Published Online: 19 Oct 2005

As the article states, one wouldn't need a lot of power.
In the cited experiment, 1 mW/g was sufficient to induce calcium
ion efflux in human neuroblastoma cells.

The transmitter could pay for itself in no time even if no robber appears:
* Defusing altercations between customers and wait staff
* Tailoring the customer demographic
* Providing entertainment for bored management
* Exploiting induced suggestibility to enhance performance feedback

There are some downsides such as eye cataracts, an increase in
susceptibility to leukemia and bacterial brain damage due to
violations of the blood/brain barrier. Those are hardly important when
you consider how funny it would be to watch random customers stand there,
gobsmacked as you rearrange their brain from the comfort of your office.

What do you think about this?

Thanks

--Winston

 

[Rich Webb]

Could you use amplitude modulated microwaves to disable a bad guy?

Picture this:
A robber enters a restaurant, swings a pistol around and demands money.

Secreted in the ceiling of the dining room is a microwave transmitter
equipped with a parabolic dish that can be aimed to cover any portion
of the eating area.

The manager, monitoring the situation from his office, aims the
transmitter at the robber, dials in an appropriate power
level and pushes the 'go' button. The pulses of microwave power
mimic and disrupt normal brain activity through calcium efflux,
paralyzing the bad guy until police arrive.

The science appears solid. Have a look at:

Adey, W. Ross, Neurophysiologic Effects of Radiofrequency and Microwave
Radiation, Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, V.55, #11, December, 1979

Bioelectromagnetics
Volume 5 Issue 1, Pages 71 - 78
Published Online: 19 Oct 2005

As the article states, one wouldn't need a lot of power.
In the cited experiment, 1 mW/g was sufficient to induce calcium
ion efflux in human neuroblastoma cells.

The transmitter could pay for itself in no time even if no robber appears:
* Defusing altercations between customers and wait staff
* Tailoring the customer demographic
* Providing entertainment for bored management
* Exploiting induced suggestibility to enhance performance feedback

There are some downsides such as eye cataracts, an increase in
susceptibility to leukemia and bacterial brain damage due to
violations of the blood/brain barrier. Those are hardly important when
you consider how funny it would be to watch random customers stand there,
gobsmacked as you rearrange their brain from the comfort of your office.

What do you think about this?

Have a good^H^H^H^Hexcellent lawyer on retainer.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Could you use amplitude modulated microwaves to disable a bad guy?

Picture this:
A robber enters a restaurant, swings a pistol around and demands money.
[snip]

What do you think about this?

Why not just use a mass projector? They are available *now*
and aren't very expensive *or* subject to power outages,
remote disabling, etc.

 

[Winston]

Could you use amplitude modulated microwaves to disable a bad guy?

Picture this:
A robber enters a restaurant, swings a pistol around and demands money.
[snip]

What do you think about this?

Why not just use a mass projector? They are available *now*
and aren't very expensive *or* subject to power outages,
remote disabling, etc.

1) Evidence. Some of the targeted customers will be influential.
Even a medical tech will be able to discern 'mass impingement'
but no one will be able to prove that the manager targeted the
customer with microwaves. Better to leave the customer feeling
as if he had a stroke, rather than have the manager suffer
... criticism.

2) Delay. Mass projectors tend to cause immediate harm that can
be associated with a particular restaurant and thus a particular
manager. We don't want that association. The beauty of the
microwave transmitter is that brain infection, leukemia, cataracts
take time to develop and cannot be tracked backwards through
months or years to a specific event or person. If we cannot trust
a restaurant manager or his assistant to make these medical decisions
for us, who can we trust?

Thanks for your thoughts.

--Winston

 

[Winston]

(...)


Have a good^H^H^H^Hexcellent lawyer on retainer.

What is the customer going to say?

"You did *something* to cause me to lose voluntary muscle control!"?

Manager can just smile and say "Now what could I have done to cause
that?"

The customer's lawyer and any prospective judge are both the property
of the megacorporation that owns the restaurant anyway,
so what is the concern?


Thanks for your thoughts.


--Winston

 

[Winston]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_denial_system

http://www.bugsweeps.com/info/microwave.html

Thanks, Vladimir.

--Winston

 

[Winston]

Perhaps not, because nobody here would want to stand around a 2200 Mhz
source producing 400+ watts per square CM pulses at a high rate, two
meters away.

1) Our customer surely would not *want* to stand in front of the antenna
if he knew it existed and understood the danger. She has no choice,
because she cannot even see the transmitter. There is no evidence
it even exists.

2) The restaurant manager won't care. He knows there aren't
any 'rear lobes' to be concerned about. His employees aren't
aware it exists either. They are 'collateral damage'.
When they come down with cataracts or leukemia, too bad, yes?

3) 400 W isn't necessary. About a milliwatt at the target is all that
is required. Input power to the antenna can be minuscule because
the radiation between the antenna and customer is going to be 'near
field' for most of the distance. The real frequency would be some
harmonic of ~900 MHz anyway because of the skull's cavity resonance.

The thresholds reported in the paper are in a anechonic
chamber and do not reflect a uncontrolled environment.

If the shape of restaurant furniture causes phase reinforcement
at the target, so much the better, right?

Plus there are signal processing issues, as your "toy" does not
induce anything near audio into the brain...

Audio is not necessary, or desirable. We aren't attempting to
discuss anything with the customer. Just controlling his body
and hopefully causing long term serious illness.

And there is considerable reflection toward the operator..

Sheet metal is cheap and easy to install in the ceiling.
We're only talking about a few mW of ERP, anyway.



Thanks, Steve.

 

[Winston]

On 3/11/2010 7:42 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

(...)

Or just drop a bowling ball on his head. ;-)

This is subtle and deniable. Bowling balls, not so much.

--Winston

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Michael,

What happens if he's wearing his aluminum foil beanie?

The bowling ball will *crush* it!! ;-)

Bowling Ball: 1
Bad Guy: 0

 

[Howard Eisenhauer]

Could you use amplitude modulated microwaves to disable a bad guy?


*Snip*

What do you think about this?

Thanks

--Winston

The paper absrtract says-

Abstract
Monolayer cultures of human neuroblastoma cells were exposed to
915-MHz radiation, with or without sinusoidal amplitude modulation
(80%) at 16 Hz, at specific absorption rates (SAR) for the culture
medium and cells of 0.00, 0.01, 0.05, 0.075, 0.1, 0.5, 0.75, 1.0, 1.5,
2, or 5 mW/g. A significant increase in the efflux of calcium ions
(45Ca2+) as compared to unexposed control cultures occurred at two SAR
values: 0.05 and 1 mW/g. Increased efflux at 0.05 mW/g was dependent
on the presence of amplitude modulation at 16 Hz but at the higher
value it was not. These results indicate that human neuroblastoma
cells are sensitive to extremely low levels of microwave radiation at
certain narrow ranges of SAR.
Received: 16 September 1982; Revised: 14 July 1983

There's a real big difference between illuminating a single layer of
cells in a cultute & lighting up a brain's worth of cells in some
numbskull's er, um... skull.

Ampitude modulation? What's the mechanisum operating to de-modulate
the signal so it can affect the calcium channels? If there ain't no
demodulation happenig all you're getting is heating effect.

I note a distinct lack of corroborating followup studies over the last
28 years.




i.e.- Not Much.

H.

 

[Winston]

The paper absrtract says-
(...)

There's a real big difference between illuminating a single layer of
cells in a cultute& lighting up a brain's worth of cells in some
numbskull's er, um... skull.

How so?
All the necessary parts have been on the shelf for decades.
* Amplitude - modulatable Microwave oscillator up to ~10 GHz at <1W
* 16 Hz Audio oscillator
* Small parabolic antenna with pitch and yaw servo system
* Various waveguide bits

You don't need to illuminate the entire 3 lbs. at all.

Ampitude modulation? What's the mechanisum operating to de-modulate
the signal so it can affect the calcium channels? If there ain't no
demodulation happenig all you're getting is heating effect.

If it were heat alone, then the effect should be more pronounced at
higher power levels. Efflux diminishes, instead.
I don't know *why* swamping the brain with a disingenuous EEG waveform
causes it to disregard the lower power signals coming
from the cells it should be listening to. It seems reasonable that
it would behave in that fashion, given the science.

I note a distinct lack of corroborating followup studies over the last
28 years.

i.e.- Not Much.

H.

Thanks, Howard.

--Winston

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

What is the customer going to say?

"You did *something* to cause me to lose voluntary muscle control!"?

Manager can just smile and say "Now what could I have done to cause
that?"

"That big microwave dish that swung round and focused on me".
Lawyer for perp subpoenas all documentation on installation.

The customer's lawyer and any prospective judge are both the property
of the megacorporation that owns the restaurant anyway,
so what is the concern?

None.
It's cheaper to hand over a few hundred, or thousand, dollars than get
involved in the cheapest lawsuit.

 

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

In other words, if you pulse-modulate a microwave oven, and pull the
magnetron out and lay it on your bench, will it knock you unconscious
when turned on? (Or distort your thinking, mimic psychoactive drug
effects, etc.?) If it doesn't work, just place your brain closer.

Do like this guy below. I love how the RF is overloading the audio in
his camcorder.

cornea-frying fun w/bare magnetron

((((((((((((((((((((((( ( ( (o) ) ) )))))))))))))))))))))))
William J. Beaty Research Engineer
beaty, chem washington edu UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74
billb, eskimo com Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
ph206-762-3818 http://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/

What a total fucking idiot.

 

[Winston]

In other words, if you pulse-modulate a microwave oven, and pull the
magnetron out and lay it on your bench, will it knock you unconscious
when turned on? (Or distort your thinking, mimic psychoactive drug
effects, etc.?)

At the proper modulation frequency and carrier amplitude,
one would probably lose all senses. One might move an
object, say a wallet from one pocket to another without
being aware of it. If the carrier were turned off soon
enough, one would remain standing but would be quite
disoriented and confused, as if waking from sleep.

It would take a couple minutes before one would be
completely conscious. Not a painful experience, but
quite unpleasant.


--Winston

 

[Winston]

(...)


I think you haven't done any background reading. This is the real
stuff, for what it is worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic_stimulation

Microwaves would - at best - cook the brain, though the scalp and
skull would absorb a lot more of the power being directed at the head.

I think we agree that one can induce current flow in portions
of the brain using direct electrodes, magnetic coupling or
induction from an electromagnetic wave. Of the three methods
in use, only electromagnetic coupling has any practical
potential for use as a security / entertainment tool to disable
bad guys or to seriously injure innocent customers and employees.
I expect that you understand the reasons why this is so.

I respectfully disagree about microwave's potential as a
carrier for the differentiated EMF offset necessary to carry
out this sort of manipulation. As it says in the article I
quoted, there is a 'window' of power level and modulation rate
(~1 mW/cm^2, 6-20 Hz) that swamps out the electrical signals normally
present in areas of the brain as part of their normal
function. The R.F. carrier appears to integrate an A.C. offset
in brain tissue capable of mimicking and replacing valid
signals of the type one would normally see presented on an E.E.G.

This is more sophisticated and subtle than mere tissue heating.
I find it significant, for example that the associated flow of
calcium in the subject tissue actually decreases as power level
increases out of the 'window' area of ~1 mW/cm^2 or at modulation
frequencies below 6 Hz or above 20 Hz.

Adey, W. Ross, Neurophysiologic Effects of Radiofrequency and Microwave
Radiation, Bulletin of the New York Academy of Medicine, V.55, #11, December, 1979

I agree that in Adey's experiments, only 147 MHz and 450 MHz RF
were used as a coupling carrier. That supports the theory that
carrier frequency itself is unimportant as long as any
amplitude offset can be integrated in brain tissue to form a
virtual electrode. At the risk of stating the obvious, a parabolic
antenna small enough to be concealed above a dropped ceiling
would be much more directional and effective with increasing
carrier frequency.


Thanks, Bill.


--Winston

 

[Winston]

I've read quite a few 1960s and 1970s papers on this..

Its NOT a beam a AM signal and get reception thing.

If you mean 'reception' in the sense of the target perceiving
a sound, I agree. Indeed the subject would temporarily lose
the sense of vision and hearing, so no new information can be
received at all.

Nor will the
rumored 6.8 hz microwave pulses knock you over into a delirium.

The modulation is closer to ~16 Hz (but on reflection is probably
a complex waveform for maximum effect). The target would lose control
over muscle movement and lose the ability to see or hear or sense
the passage of time. If the carrier is turned off within a second
or so, the subject would remain standing. I imagine that the
subject would fall to the floor if pushed because of the loss of
voluntary muscle control.

The fields you need to get the effect in 99 percent of the population
are down right hazardous.

Yes, the R.F. field is hazardous immediately and the potential for
eventual leukemia, brain infection and DNA damage are increased
as well.

Why do you make a point about hazard? I don't understand
how that makes any difference at all.

Read the studies of the radar system exposures.. All you get is a soft
click, click click... or buzz, at best.. Why? The tissue cannot
respond that fast.

The effect I mentioned is not 'microwave hearing'.

The effect is to temporarily deny a person sight, hearing, conscious
thought and muscle control. A bonus is to enhance the target's
susceptibility to disease such as cancer, brain infection and DNA damage.

This is not about 'clicking sounds'.

(...)

And while these fields will not be any where near enough to kill
consumer electronics, they will cause some minor disruptions.

Consumer electronics are of no concern. The person targeted is of
no concern. Nothing but the entertainment of the restaurant manager
is of any importance at all.

You do agree, right?

The first person with a pacemaker (which are hardened) who has angina
(probably from the lousy food, such a place would serve) around this
thing would sue you into oblivion.

How could that possibly happen?

The megacorporation that owns the restaurant also owns the plaintiff's
lawyer and the judge. How could such a lawsuit proceed, considering
that there is no evidence, and all parties are owned by the perpetrator.

You are confusing me here. Please explain?

The antenna required is visibly huge. There is no hiding it, and you'd
have to hold it against your target's head.

The antenna is a small parabola (ca. 12" or less in diameter).
It (and the mechanism needed to steer it) fits very neatly above any
dropped ceiling. It would be effective against anyone in the
dining area of a typical restaurant. We need only 1 mW/cm^2, after all.

I'm sure as hell not going to point you to any further explanation
because you obviously do NOT have a clue about RF safety,physical
effects, or morals..

R.F. Safety:
I understand that this system would be dangerous to anyone targeted.
It would deny them control over their own body, at the minimum.

Physical Effects:
It has the potential to seriously harm anyone targeted, perhaps
reducing their immune response to serious illness as time passes.
It could kill someone easily (if not quickly).
I understand that.

I sense that you feel this is somehow improper or wrong in some way?

Morals:
I don't understand. What has that got to do with anything?
Please elaborate.

RANT MODE ACTIVE:
GAWD DAMN INTERNET
EVERYBODY READS THE BS SUPERWEAPONS CRAP OUT THERE AND THINKS ITS TRUE
END RANT MODE:

It's not a 'super weapon'. Just a little transmitter.


Thanks, Steve.


--Winston

 

[Winston]

So you're trying to invent the "Date-Rape Wand."

That idea is morally repugnant and inexcusable.
I'm saddened to think anyone would contemplate that.

I was talking about a tool for use by an organization that
is incapable of any sort of immorality or crime, because
they would never be accused, no matter who they attacked.

I don't own any judges.
Let's try to stay on the same page here.

--Winston

 

[Winston]

On 3/12/2010 10:46 AM, AZ Nomad wrote:

(...)

As long as the workers doesn't mind the effects on themselves.
Such toys invariable nail the owner more than any would be thief.

How could that be? Who is the 'nailer'?

After you discover that the robber is actually a friend of the cashier
and joking around and you lay him on the ground, make plans to sell
off the business to pay legal costs and to spend a nice amount of time
in jail.

Are you seriously suggesting that a lawyer or judge would voluntarily
snuff out their career by prosecuting a case against their owners?

Nonsense.

Put a revolver under the register if you have such a problem with
robbery.

But this is *so* much more elegant!
Not only can the manager disable robbers, he can
use the system on honest employees and customers as well.
The entertainment is endless because it is completely
undetectable.

The old guy on table #4. Just as he lifts his coffee cup, zap
him and he pours hot coffee all over his shirt! He gets up,
and attempts to get to the bathroom, zap him again so he hits
his head on the counter and soils himself at the same time.

I don't think you grasp the hilarious possibilities here.

There isn't any evidence it was ever used, other than the recollection
of the victim. Who is going to believe him (or her for that matter)?

I don't understand your 'anti-business' position at all.


Thanks, AZ


--Winston

 

[Winston]

Doesn't matter. Invariably it is the owner or employees injured for the
simple matter that most of the time there isn't a burgler in presence
of the infernal machine.

Only the owner and installer are aware the transmitter exists at all.
They aren't about to zap themselves with it.

Rat chews through a control line and sets
the thing off. Drunk employee goes into the manager's office and
plays around.

So, who cares? In either case, there is no evidence, no foul
no crime.

Owner mistakes friend of cashier.

There would be no crime because no judge would ever prosecute.

He places judgment against say, "Allied Domestic Sandwich", he knows it's
all over for him. Finito. No more robes. Venality is not stupidity.

It doesn't matter. If you put a shotgun in the ceiling on remote
control, you're playing a very dangerous game.

Be serious. This machine is completely undetectable.
Anyone who knows of it's existence will remain piously quiet about it.
That is what they are paid to do.

This country was built by people who believed in the sanctity
and grace of big business. Let's not backslide here.

Thanks, AZ

--Winston

 

[Winston]

On 3/12/2010 11:23 AM, Dave Platt wrote:

(...)

Yup. The OP ought to dig back through the archives, and read up on
some of the cases where property owners have created dangerous or
lethal "man-traps" to deter burglary or vandalism.

1) The transmitter is not immediately deadly. Eventually, perhaps.
By then, there's even less evidence that it was ever used.

2) I was not talking about individuals or small business owners
for whom the law applies and is generally enforced. I was talking
about a completely different business scale, for whom the law
does not apply and is not enforced. Two completely different
situations.

Sometimes these end up killing innocent people... and the property
owners face manslaughter charges and massive civil lawsuits for
wrongful death from the families of those killed.

See section #2 above. The transmitter wouldn't be used by people
who are subject to law. Only subsidiaries of Big Business for
whom there is no risk of prosecution attached.

Sometimes these end up killing or injuring burglars and vandals... and
the property owners go to prison for manslaughter, and also end up
being sued by the burglars or their families.

No evidence, no crime perpetrated by an un-prosecutable.

That is a bad corner to be playing in.

"Sorry, thanks for the info but you are deluded to think
we would ever do such a thing."

In most jurisdications, it is *not* legally permissible to use deadly
or potentially-deadly force merely to protect property.

Attempted murder is permissible and a valid management technique,
if you are a large enough corporation. It just does not get
investigated.

It is not considered to be as serious as your parking ticket.

Equivalently-bad scenario: there *is* an armed robber, the manager
zaps him with hidden the "microwave convulsion beam", the robber
collapses...

No, the robber would only 'collapse' if he was off - balance
when zapped. He would remain standing otherwise.
Blind and deaf, with a vacant expression on his face,
but still standing.

and the beam also hits a diner or two at the next table,
and *they* collapse or go blind or go into convulsions.

No collapses. Just frozen with temporary blindness and deafness.
See, we are overwhelming a very complicated system with
a bunch of 'nonsense data'. It is a 'Denial Of Service'
attack, with the brain as a target instead of a computer.

Having two or more people (one robber plus N innocents) affected
in the same way, at the same time, is going to clue *somebody* off
to the fact that something weird is going on!

Yes but a powerless 'somebody'. Who cares? The cops? The courts?

Seriously. No authority is going to give a flying guacamole even if
a witness were brave enough to risk being called 'delusional'.

(I do admit that it's a matter of time before a technically hip LEO
gets zapped by one of these transmitters. Then we will see some
very nuanced criticism, which will also not be detected, prosecuted
or reported.)

The OP seems to be taking the position that "This isn't a crime,
because it won't be detected and the person the zapping can't be
accused."

In application, yes. The crime didn't occur unless a judge said
it did, yes? Hey, 'suspect' all you want because the judge will
say *anything* the corporation wants him to say. I do admit that
this gives the courts pretty good leverage. The bad news is that
such leverage will result in more generous contributions, but not
an improvement in behavior on the part of the corporation.

A parabolic or wave-guide microwave antenna of sufficiently
narrow beam-width to do this is *not* small or all that easily
concealed, especially if it's on some sort of pivot-able mounting and
is located somewhere which gives adequate coverage of a room.

Of course it would be small and easy to hide. Pick a frequency that
beams well using a <12" diameter parabola yet still easily penetrates
through a couple inches of cranium to deposit 1 mW/ cm^2 in the brain
over a distance of say 20 feet.
Pretty cheap and easy with suspended ceilings being as ubiquitous as
they are.

When the police tape off the whole area as a crime scene, they'll almost
certainly find it...

Back up here, please. Your scenario posits three individuals who
wake up from an artificially - induced frozen, unconscious state.
They are dazed and confused but regain full use of their senses and
muscles within a couple minutes. One of them is on the ground being
cuffed by security; #2 is dabbing at some coffee he spilled on his
shirt. #3 is wondering if it was apparent that she fell asleep during
#2's monologue.

No evidence that anything out of the ordinary happened.

No 'Crime Scene' tape. No nothing.

...at which point, the manager will be in Very Deep
Trouble.

With whom? Not the courts, not the cops. Just who is the source
of this Trouble?

Assault and battery, attempted murder,

The manager is an employee of a Large Corporation. He cannot be touched,
even if the cops were inclined to arrest. They won't be because
there is no evidence any crime occurred and no budget and even
less motivation to develop the expertise to detect this kind of thing.

and illegal use of an unlicensed transmitting device.

The FCC does not care. Who is going to enforce that law?

Or a Taser, or pepper spray.

In all of these cases, though, the chances of somebody ending up dead
are probably quite a bit less if nobody tries to play cowboy.

As long as the target is customer, a waitress or a bad guy, who cares?
There's no evidence. No crime to investigate.

Here is a real opportunity for some enterprising company to make several
tons of money. Not a competitor in sight and plenty of powerful,
very well financed companies with which to become Very Friendly.

Cha-Ching!

--Winston