Microsoft screws up AGAIN. Now your programs may stop working !

[JeffM]

Not at all. I'm suggesting that Symantec has crappy apps
that create enough problems to make your computing experience
a pain in the glutious maximus.

....and it's been that way for MANY years.

My past experience with ZA (a decade ago) was horrid.

Mine has been the polar opposite.

Perhaps ZA is much improved.

I still see many tales of woe *attributed* to ZoneAlarm.

Anyway, if you have XP, the built-in firewall works fine

M$'s crapware DOES NOT filter EGRESS traffic
(contrary to the MAIN reason to have a *software* firewall).

and you don't need all these silly firewall addins.

If you get infected from a CD
(ostensibly benign trojans are common in commercial software)[1]
and are running M$'s "software firewall",
outbound traffic from that infection will pass unchallenged.

If you install an app that constantly tries to "phone home"[1],
this will NEVER be flagged by M$'s garbage "firewall".
ALL OTHER software firewalls intercept outbound packets.
Now ask yourself:
WHY IS ONLY REDMOND'S STUFF CRIPPLED?

If you have a router (a hardware firewall) between you and the 'Net,
M$'s crapware is redundant and just burns cycles needlessly.
..
..
[1] You'd be shocked at the number of people
who report "mainstream" apps pulling this crap.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

AHA! I have a new Lenovo with problems, and Symantec on the other
machines. A'hunting I will go ;-)

What about virus protection? Is it really needed? Particularly
behind a router with all ports blocked?

How valuble is your data?


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Clifford Heath]

What about virus protection? Is it really needed? Particularly
behind a router with all ports blocked?

The firewall will stop worms getting in, but virus' get in by you
inviting them. If you don't blindly open attachments, and if your
email and browser software has no bugs(!), you're safe without
much internal protection. Personally, I wouldn't do it however.
I don't like to let Windows get near a network, I run it only
inside a virtual-hosted jail on a secure Unix machine... and my
software is being used to manage security on millions of enterprise
Windows desktop machines worldwide, so I know how it's done .

Clifford Heath.

 

[JeffM]

AHA! I have a new Lenovo with problems,
and Symantec on the other machines. A'hunting I will go ;-)

What about virus protection? Is it really needed?
Particularly behind a router with all ports blocked?

First, never again use Internet Exploder
(to avoid ActiveX, ActiveScript, and Browser Helper Objects).

Next, never again use Outlook or Outlook Express.
(to avoid winmail.dat and HTML email crap).

From there, you can go 1 of 2 routes.

First route:
1) Never download another executable.
2a) Make sure all your Windoze systems
are configured to show file extensions.
2b) Learn the names of ALL the executable file extensions:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...l+inf+asd+shs+nws+chm+wsh+eml+vcd+eml&strip=1
(Scroll down ~70%.)
2c) Now, never double-click an executable email attachment.
3) Never again use M$Office to open any M$O file
(which might contain a macro).

Second route:
1) Install NOD32. It's slimmer and much less intrusive.
2) Have it scan every file upon download.

 

[[email protected]]

If you get infected from a CD

(ostensibly benign trojans are common in commercial software)[1]
and are running M$'s "software firewall",
outbound traffic from that infection will pass unchallenged.

If you install an app that constantly tries to "phone home"[1],
this will NEVER be flagged by M$'s garbage "firewall".
ALL OTHER software firewalls intercept outbound packets.
Now ask yourself:
WHY IS ONLY REDMOND'S STUFF CRIPPLED?

If you have a router (a hardware firewall) between you and the 'Net,
M$'s crapware is redundant and just burns cycles needlessly.

Lesson: Have a firewall that only allows specific outbound traffic. And none
inbound.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

If you get infected from a CD
(ostensibly benign trojans are common in commercial software)[1]
and are running M$'s "software firewall",
outbound traffic from that infection will pass unchallenged.

If you install an app that constantly tries to "phone home"[1],
this will NEVER be flagged by M$'s garbage "firewall".
ALL OTHER software firewalls intercept outbound packets.
Now ask yourself:
WHY IS ONLY REDMOND'S STUFF CRIPPLED?

If you have a router (a hardware firewall) between you and the 'Net,
M$'s crapware is redundant and just burns cycles needlessly.

Lesson: Have a firewall that only allows specific outbound traffic. And none
inbound.

Zone Alarm.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Martin Griffith]

AHA! I have a new Lenovo with problems, and Symantec on the other
machines. A'hunting I will go ;-)

What about virus protection? Is it really needed? Particularly
behind a router with all ports blocked?

...Jim Thompson

try this out
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
It seems to do a good analysis of whats on your machine


martin

 

[Robert Baer]

try this out
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
It seems to do a good analysis of whats on your machine


martin

I had sent a copy of some of this discussion to a number of friends
on my e-mail list.
Here is one of the more pertinent responses:
"Some of my friends who tried Vista say that Zone Alarm deleted it,
like any other virus.
thx."

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

I had sent a copy of some of this discussion to a number of friends
on my e-mail list.
Here is one of the more pertinent responses:
"Some of my friends who tried Vista say that Zone Alarm deleted it,
like any other virus.
thx."

You need smarter friends, because Zone Alarm doesn't delete anything.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

I'm sorry I migrated to XP from 2K :-(

I.M.O. WinXP is the best windows ever. I have had no problems at all with it
on my miniature setup of one work box, wify's laptop and three teenage game
boxes.

The other work box runs Ubunu Linux. Windows just cannot match the tools
that come with a Linux system.

 

[Frithiof Andreas Jensen]

Why would you want Zone Alarm? All it does is create problems. Anyone
on a fast connection has a firewall, so you don't need ZA. XP's
built-in firewall works better. We had fits setting up one of the new
laptops at work which caused problems on our network. I finally ripped
out the Symantec security suite which included some sort of firewall
thingy. Presto, no more problems.

Anything carrying the brand of Symantec is shite - Symantec's business is
recycling the remnants of "almost-made-it" software from dead IT businesses.

 

[MooseFET]

AHA! I have a new Lenovo with problems, and Symantec on the other
machines. A'hunting I will go ;-)

What about virus protection? Is it really needed? Particularly
behind a router with all ports blocked?

If you run IE-6 and go to a web site that does "drive by download" to
install viruses, the firewall will still save you. IE-7 is claimed to
have fixed the bug but it seems they only partly plugged the hole.
Smoe of the drive by sites still get the virus in.

 

[MooseFET]

First, never again use Internet Exploder
(to avoid ActiveX, ActiveScript, and Browser Helper Objects).

Next, never again use Outlook or Outlook Express.
(to avoid winmail.dat and HTML email crap).

From there, you can go 1 of 2 routes.

First route:
1) Never download another executable.
2a) Make sure all your Windoze systems
are configured to show file extensions.
2b) Learn the names of ALL the executable file extensions:http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:YIsC1qzfDTkJ:advosys.ca/papers/m...
(Scroll down ~70%.)
2c) Now, never double-click an executable email attachment.
3) Never again use M$Office to open any M$O file
(which might contain a macro).

4) Make sure that all the other programs you use don't have
"exploits" in them. A fairly commonly overlooked one is the picture
viewers.

5) Don't use outlook for e-mail.

6) Don't use IE to look at web sites.

 

[MooseFET]

If you get infected from a CD
(ostensibly benign trojans are common in commercial software)[1]
and are running M$'s "software firewall",
outbound traffic from that infection will pass unchallenged.
If you install an app that constantly tries to "phone home"[1],
this will NEVER be flagged by M$'s garbage "firewall".
ALL OTHER software firewalls intercept outbound packets.
Now ask yourself:
WHY IS ONLY REDMOND'S STUFF CRIPPLED?
If you have a router (a hardware firewall) between you and the 'Net,
M$'s crapware is redundant and just burns cycles needlessly.

Lesson: Have a firewall that only allows specific outbound traffic. And none
inbound.

Or: unplug the network cable and remove the floppy and CD drives and
plug up the USB ports.

 

[[email protected]]

Anything carrying the brand of Symantec is shite - Symantec's business is
recycling the remnants of "almost-made-it" software from dead IT businesses.

And put incompetent "security experts" on TV

Like the Von Braun that implied the hospital PDA WEP wireless was insecure.
However he forgott to mention the IpSec tunneling that was utilised ontop.
(no ipsec => connection denied)

 

[[email protected]]

4) Make sure that all the other programs you use don't have

"exploits" in them. A fairly commonly overlooked one is the picture
viewers.

The system shall have an permission system that denies any undue access. In
particular to system resources.

5) Don't use outlook for e-mail.

Amen, Thunderbird.

6) Don't use IE to look at web sites.

Amen, Firefox.

The last two is quite simple steps. Still some peopel would rather have their
machine infected and hijacked.

 

[Robert Adsett]

AHA! I have a new Lenovo with problems, and Symantec on the other
machines. A'hunting I will go ;-)

What about virus protection? Is it really needed? Particularly
behind a router with all ports blocked?

Three questions

What do you use for a browser?
What do you use for e-mail?
How often have you been hit by a virus?

Some applications are more vulnerable than other when it comes to
introducing mal-ware even if only due to simple popularity.

Personally I've had more damage occur to my machines from virus scanners
than from viruses. That doesn't mean they are useless but I suspect
their usefulness is inversely proportional to the knowledge and
expertise of the people using them.

Robert

 

[JeffM]

I.M.O. WinXP is the best windows ever.

Especially if you enjoy constantly being called a thief.
(Early results of "Windows Genuine Advantage" probes):
http://www.google.com/search?q=42%....ng.Genuine.software+site:slashdot.org&num=100
(More recent results):
http://www.google.com/search?q=intitle:One.in.Five+WGA+22.Per.Cent+-Canada&num=100

The other work box runs Ubunu Linux.

Yeah, but... (a little business-executive-think here)
It *can't* be any good if it's FREE.

Windows just cannot match the tools that come with a Linux system.

Here's one thing Linux doesn't have (BSA vultures):
http://www.google.com/search?q=cach...-*-*-*-*-treats-us-poorly+$35000+evening.news

 

[Jim Thompson]

Three questions

What do you use for a browser?

Firefox v2.0.0.12

What do you use for e-mail?

Eudora v7.1.0.9

How often have you been hit by a virus?

Once, about 10 years ago.

Some applications are more vulnerable than other when it comes to
introducing mal-ware even if only due to simple popularity.

Personally I've had more damage occur to my machines from virus scanners
than from viruses. That doesn't mean they are useless but I suspect
their usefulness is inversely proportional to the knowledge and
expertise of the people using them.

Robert

...Jim Thompson

 

[Joerg]

Much agreed. The reports i get from the IT departments i deal with, are
that they still won't touch it.

Same in this here consulting office