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microcontroller flash memory question

Discussion in 'Beginner Electronics' started by Henry, Feb 17, 2006.

  1. Henry

    Henry Guest

    In researching different microcontrollers on different sites, one made the
    staement that their microcontroller can be re-programmed up to about 1000
    times. Sounds like alot at first, but it you are trying 10-20 programs a day
    (experiments from a book with your own variations, etc) then that does not
    give one more than several months of use until the microcontroller might
    need replacing. I have seen this mention of 1000 reprogramings on only one
    site. Is this as limit of this specific microcontroller, or are all
    microcontrollers like this and simply dont mention it? I understand that
    flash memory has a limited number of rewrites. There are articles about how
    digital camera flash memory cards can be (re-)used about 10,000 times.
    Although some manufactures say that their cards can be re-used one million
    times.

    I am considering getting the Basic Stamp "board of education" kit. It seems
    pretty complete, kit wise, and seems well documented.

    Henry
     
  2. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Some of these links might help:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=flash+memory+cycles+lifetime

    Another thing you could do is write your firmware better, so you don't
    have to take so many debug cycles. :)

    Have Fun!
    Rich
     
  3. Henry

    Henry Guest

    I propose that just answering with a Google search be a new net-etiquette
    rule. First Google searches tend to be filled with a list of sites where one
    site is just a copy of another (sometimes exact copy) over and over again.
    And if its bad information, you simply get the same bad information repeated
    over and over. And there are lots of information that simply is not on
    Google. Its also just obnoxious.

    Ussually I ignore such Google search "answers". But out of curiosity I took
    a chance. Sure enough, the links added nothing to what I already know from
    my own searches and even what I stated in my question. Again, this is why I
    tend to ignore such replies and will continue to do so in the future.

    Henry
     
  4. There are no rules.
    You need to refer to detailed data sheets for each device you are interested
    in.
     
  5. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest


    No, what's obnoxious is googlegroupies waltzing into the newsgroup (which
    existed a long time before google was even a gleam in what's-his-name's
    eye), demanding answers to questions that could have already been answered
    if the kiddie had bothered to check the left side of google first.

    If you're too lazy/stubborn to even do that minuscule amount of research,
    then you simply don't deserve that kind of hand-holding from people who do
    know their elbow from a hole in the ground.

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
  6. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Thanks. Now that is more useful. The one site was Atom-something. (I've been
    to so many sites I have lost track. Also my eyesight is going somewhat as I
    get tired reading from the screen to easily these days.) The microcontroller
    I am considering is the basic stamp. At $30-$40 I want to know if I need to
    buy an extra for when I get done "experimenting" with the first.

    Thanks,
    Henry
     
  7. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Is that information in the datasheets?

    For example, when I downloaded the datasheets for the HT12E/D encoder and
    decoders (that someone here suggested for me one photo related project)
    there was no mention of how long it took the devices to operate. So after
    the waste of a purchase it turns out that the decoder's delay (about 1/10
    sec) to decode made it useless for me intended purpose. I had previously
    sent the company a question and got no reply.

    Decades ago there was much more curtsy and expertise in getting questions
    answered from manufactures. Even the old SN7400 series chips had switching
    speeds listed (usually in the tens of ns.) But now it seems that there is a
    "buy it and try it, if it doesn't work, tough luck" attitude in the world.

    Henry
     
  8. Henry

    Henry Guest

    First of all I am not completely sure I understand some of your message.

    Yes, Google is recent. I have been on the Internet long before there was the
    WWW, when the newsgroups were some of the best ways to get information that
    was otherwise difficult to find. I dont find Google all that useful. There
    is too much repeated and sometimes bad information out there. Rich, are you
    referring to yourself as the "googlegroupy?" Because it was you that posted
    the Google search link, not me. I dont know about you, but I was in college
    back when the Internet was only experimental protocols like Bitnet.

    Now, on another discussion list I did got some "off the record" type
    information that is somewhat useful from an old friend that now works at
    CMU's robotics lab. I will share that comment in another post.

    About the rest of your reply, well you assume far too much and I am not even
    going to waist anymore of my time with you. You want to act like a child,
    then I will ignore you like one.

    Henry
     
  9. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Here is some information I got from an old friend that now works at a
    robotics lab. I asked my question in other places.

    *****
    I don't program, so I don't use these. Older small robot projects used the
    basic stamp; they are apparently simple to program but not very fast. PIC
    controllers are used in several of my more complex robots, but I hear
    grumbling every time some grad student needs to write code that talks to
    them. (Admittedly, if they are writing code at that level, it *isn't* what
    they are doing research on, it is just to get the robots to work; the
    students I work with are doing research on planners, not actuators.)
    *****

    Now that has some useful, real experience, type information that you dont
    find on manufacturers web sites.

    Henry
     
  10. diehard67

    diehard67 Guest

    I'm not sure what micro controller u are using but did u consider a
    simulater

    proteus can simulate sevrol diferint pic microcontrolers and no limite on
    rewrights, lol

    it should be able to do realtime for all but the most complex designs

    http://www.labcenter.co.uk/index_uk.htm

    I hope this is usfull
     
  11. Henry

    Henry Guest

    I have considered a simulator. That might work out some bugs. But when
    interfacing with real world devices, there is nothing like testing with the
    real thing. If the simulators are free, then I might consider one learning
    the programming language. But, again, as I learned over a decade ago when I
    did some process control programming with Fortran on VAX/VMS systems, there
    is nothing like testing with the real hardware.

    THanks, though.

    Henry
     
  12. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Finally heard back from Parallax (manufacturer of the Basic Stamp
    microcontroller.) They claim that their microcontrollers are good for up to
    10 million re-programming cycles.

    FYI,
    Henry
     
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