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Micro hydro-electric generator help

Discussion in 'Power Electronics' started by IATSB, May 28, 2019.

  1. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    I naively thought the idea behind any wilderness trip was to get away from the trappings of civilisation, hence not taking anything needing charging? :)
     
  2. IATSB

    IATSB

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    I did read your post, and followed your link actually, but your suggested solar panel (I know it wouldn't have to be that specific one) is almost 10 feet long (9'8"). Not very convenient in a 12 foot boat with 2 people, 4 rods, and flopping 30"+ fish. I do appreciate your input, but having first hand knowledge of the conditions I will be in, I've decided that a little hydro electric generator is my best (though not ideal) option.
    Being ex-military, and having been stuck teaching the land navigation course several times, I am very familiar with map and compass navigation. However, a topographical map of this lake has never been made. Its outline has been charted (I had the opportunity to meet the man who charted most of the lakes in the area), but not its bottom. Being able to find rock piles and dropoffs in real time would be a significant advantage. The fish finder isn't a required tool, but it can be a very helpful one.
    Tha fios agaibh, could you maybe elaborate on the parts in your diagram? If I'm interpreting it correctly, you have (left to right) generator, .1uA capacitor?, pb137 with in, common, and out, 10uF polarized capacitor, and ammeter.
    Will the ammeter control the current? or just tell me what it is? I did some more looking, and it appears that for an extra $4, I can get a 12v 10watt generator with a built in voltage regulator. The product description was combined for 3 models, creating a little confusion on my end.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
  3. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    all incorrecxt

    please go and look at the example I posted a link to

    You obviously never looked !
     
  4. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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  5. davenn

    davenn Moderator

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    seriously guys !!!
    you really don't get it


    no they read current
     
  6. IATSB

    IATSB

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    Those boats are almost exactly what they provide to us. The only difference is the ones we will use have two bench seats instead of the nice cushioned chairs. Sorry, but a 298cm (117") x 41cm (16") panel would be much too large to use on these boats. It's longer than the fishing poles we use. The generator I'm looking at is about 3.5"x2"x1.25" and has a shipping weight of 3.3oz, for less than $20. Add in $5 for a few PVC fittings, and maybe $10 for a budget cushion, I'm looking at less than $40 total, and around 1lb for a compact generator that will suit my needs. A solar panel would be a good option, but does not suit my specific situation.
     
  7. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Would you care to provide a link?
    I'm sure many here would like to see what you've come up with.
    Not that it will be of any great surprise to us but it most assuredly will be to you.
     
  8. IATSB

    IATSB

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    May 28, 2019
  9. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    220ma (max) isn't going to be enough current to put any significant charge back into the battery assuming ~20 minute runs across the lake at top speed.
    I thought the 10w generator would be much more efficient than that.

    I would ask the guide if you could pay extra and have them provide a battery for you.
    I know many outfitters have fish finders on their boats.
    Surely some of their boats have marine batteries for running lights for operation at night?
     
  10. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    I looked several times and I assume everyone else did too.

    Like I said, it'd be great back at the cabin but any fisherman will tell you it's not feasible on that type of boat. Especially if you plan on catching fish.
     
  11. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    Bluejets likes this.
  12. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Looked at the unit you link to.
    Are you aware of this and what it means......... " The output voltage with no voltage regulator is proportional to the water pressure."

    and are you aware also the maximum pressure listed ( and I assume given no spec sheet) is 1.2Mpa which is 174Lb/sq" pressure that this would be the maximum output.

    Don't think you will even get close to what you expect.
     
    BobK likes this.
  13. Alec_t

    Alec_t

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    Sadly I have to agree.
    1) A boat going at, say, 10 knots won't build up much pressure to drive the genny; certainly nothing like 174psi. I think you'd be lucky to get 10% of that.
    2) Let's be generous and assume you could actually get 50mA out of the genny. That's insignificant compared to the 1.4A the fishfinder/GPS draws from the battery.
    3) I presume the '10W' rating is in 'Interweb Watts', since 12V x 220mA is only 2.64W.
     
    Bluejets and BobK like this.
  14. Tha fios agaibh

    Tha fios agaibh

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    Not to mention that it'd probably need to be rigidly mounted to the boat with ideal alignment in order to maximize the pressure it'd see. It would also need a custom inlet to help funnel water into the garden hose fitting it has.
    So even if it's output was sufficient, your not going to just hold it in that water with a stick or something and expect it to work imo.
     
    Bluejets and BobK like this.
  15. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    It never ceases to amaze me the number of otherwise well-educated, i.e., successful enough to afford a (fly-in?) Canadian wilderness fishing expedition, who nevertheless don't have a clue about electricity.

    Perhaps they imagine electrical power, in sufficient quantities to operate a fish finder, can be easily provided by a pair of hamsters in heat, madly chasing each other inside a spinning cage-wheel attached to a generator? If so, this would surely be more practical than towing a water turbine across a lake while attempting to bait hooks and catch fish. Maybe its time to apply some of that biology education to finding and catching fish?
     
    Bluejets likes this.
  16. IATSB

    IATSB

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    I suppose I shouldn't be surprised by the personal attacks here, I did ask the internet a question... Which was not "What are all of the ways I could possibly generate power on a boat?" nor was it "Do you think this is a perfect solution with no problems whatsoever?" What I need to know is what electrical components I need between the generator and the battery to make it function electrically. If I build it and find it isn't useful, then I've at least had the experience to make an improved system in the future. I came here for help, and so far I've gotten a lot of sarcasm, agenda pushing, and generally not providing the information I've requested. The fios agaihb has come the closest, with his circuit diagram. I requested this information with 11 days to build this system, now I have 6 days before I leave on this trip and am no closer to actually starting my project. I really need help designing this electrical system.
     
  17. BobK

    BobK

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    Other than Hevans, I have not seen anything that could be construed as a personal attack. Pointing out impracticality of a proposed solution is something we do often here, mainly because many things proposed by those without much experience at electronics are just that, impractical, or at least sub-optimal and sometimes totally bananas.

    My knowledge of physics and electronics is enough to make an informed evaluation of what you are attempting to do. I was silent about it until I saw the device you are planning on using. That device is designed to take high pressure high flow water through a hose connection. Dragging it behind a boat just isn't going to do that. I don't need to do any calculations to arrive at that opinion.

    But here is a calculation I can do. You said you needed to charge an 8 Ah 12V battery. That is roughly 100 Watt hours, or 10 hours of operation of your little turbine at max output! Can you see the problem there? Seeing as the most you are going to produce by dragging it is, say 1/10 the of the max, we are talking about 100 hours. So you can see why we have been skeptical.

    Bob
     
    hevans1944 and Bluejets like this.
  18. hevans1944

    hevans1944 Hop - AC8NS

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    Personal attacks? I simply made a few truthful observations in an attempt to show you the error of your ways through absurdity. Did you miss the biology class that demonstrated hamster generation of electricity? As I approach age seventy-five with failing health, I find my time is too valuable (it always was, I just didn't realize it) to waste trying to answer "questions" from the ignorant who refuse to become educated. And yes, that specifically includes you, @IATSB. You didn't come here looking for answers, you arrived here with an agenda and that hasn't changed. So, between now and your fishing trip, why don't you go troll some other forum so we can continue to help those who would help themselves. Try this one on for size. It's highly recommended by the owners of Electronics Point, but that may have something to do with advertising revenue. Team Instructables does sometimes offer both correct and practical solutions, but it can be difficult to separate the chaff from the wheat.

    This thread has continued for more than thirty-seven replies, comments, and suggestions... of which you have rejected every single one in your misguided attempt to create a "solution" by wishful thinking... some would call it "magical thinking," and just because you thought it up, it will magically violate all known laws of physics to provide the happy ending you so want to happen. I can assure you that your "solution" will not work, and cannot be made to work, with any sort of additional circuitry or electronic or electrical components.
     
  19. IATSB

    IATSB

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    May 28, 2019
    To be honest, if I were looking to "troll a forum," I might drop in and launch a personal attack at someone, just like you have done, clearly in an effort to get a reaction. It's kind of like you're saying "You have a college degree? I can't believe you can't explain in detail how a hydraulic transmission works." It's not an area of study that I've had a need for until now. I have great respect for my elders, they've seen so much and done so much more than I have. But I also expect more from them, due to their years of experience. If you need me to set up a gel electrophoresis DNA or protein study, or isolate antibodies from a tissue sample, I can do that. Just don't expect me to fix a radio. I actually did very well in physics, and enjoyed it very much, but there was very little electrical engineering in our physics curriculum. This was beyond my knowledge, so I went asking for an answer. AN answer. The most practical suggestion was the solar panel, which would still be untenable in the environment to which I am traveling. With regard to my agenda, all I wanted was 2-3 minutes of someone's time to sketch out a wiring diagram. I'd be happy to discuss a wide variety of possible solutions, when I'm not pressed for time. If you can design a wiring diagram for this, then why deliberately withhold the information? How does keeping information from someone seeking knowledge help them to learn?

    BobK, I appreciate your more measured response. You seem to be more interested in teaching, which is an excellent characteristic to have. I will most likely abandon this endeavor, as I doubt I would even have the time to have components shipped to me, assembled, tested, and revised at this point. It genuinely makes me sad that I won't even have the chance to try. I was a combat engineer in the US Army, and the engineer motto is "Essayons," "Let us try."
     
  20. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Wiring diagram for what?

    A truck load of wiring diagrams won't help you.

    Apparently that does not include, get you head out of the sand, pay attention and listen for a change.

    I've struck some bull headed people in my time who simply won't be told but you certainly take the cake.
     
    hevans1944 likes this.
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