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Making electrolytic triodes.

ColdSunday

Oct 3, 2018
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Hello everyone! I've been in a project a couple of months and I wanted to show you it.
I'm making electrolytic triodes. Yes, that's fine, Triodes. They can control an electrical current with another current.
And It's really easy and effortless to make.

In an electrolyte, the current isn't carried by electrons, but by ions. They physically travel from one electrode to another and react to release electrons in the conductor. I tried several types and structures. And the best way of making one is by using a tiny bottle in wich you can put a normal soda tap at the top so it's not conductive then attach the electrodes to the tap and fill the bottle with alcohol, vinegar or lemon juice. For the electrodes, using wire you make two spirals leaving them a "leg", cut them separately and then make a serpentine and leg. That's our grid.
IMG_20181003_153905.jpg
Something like this.
(DISCLAIMER: i made triodes wity tiny bottles, but a cheaper way of making them is to sandwich the electrodes in absorbwnt paper and wet it with the electrolyte. At some point, it will dry out so it's not the best idea, but it anyway works. I also used bottle ends glued together. They were difficult to glue..)
The electrolyte must be Ethilic Alcohol, Vinegar or lemon juice. I first used salty water, but it releades chlorine and the water ended up being a lye solution. Also my electrodes dissolved so it wasn't good at all.
You should end up with the tap like this:
IMG_20181003_154108.jpg
(The pencil lead electrode was a trial for the salty water not to eat the electrode. However, if you use one of the electrolytes listed above, there'll be no problem)
A shoot to two of my triodes:
IMG_20181003_154048.jpg
The left one is something like the one you could make.

And a demostration!
To use it. Connect the two "spiral" electrodes with a LED and battery in series. Use another battery and connect it to one of the spiral electrodes and the grid that's in the middle. Now you have two currents flowing. One from spiral to spiral, that is the controlled one, and one from one spiral to grid. Depending on the direction of the spiral-grid ions, they will block the flow of the spiral-spiral ones or push them faster. So:

IMG_20181003_154029.jpg
Triode is connected, ammeter measures in mA No battery applied to grid.
IMG_20181003_154014.jpg
Triode disconnected. Ammeter meaures battery current through LED.
IMG_20181003_153957.jpg
Second 9V battery connected between one electrode and grid making grid positive. Ammeter measures in mA.


I can rise up the led current or cut it down. I am yet not able to build an amplifier for audio/analog frequencies.

I don't think I wrote everything correctly so you can understand what I say. If something is confuse, make me know!

Any ideas or thoughts? Any comment is happily received. Thx b4.

Also the process is explained better in my instagram: @ ColdSundayOk. It's in spanish since that's my main language, I hope instagram translates it well and not makes any incoherences.

Anyway, thanks for reading!
 

(*steve*)

¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd
Moderator
Jan 21, 2010
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If this were a vacuum tube, the frequency response would be significantly affected by the time it takes for electrons to cross the device. However, unlike a vacuum tube, ions will remain in the space between the electrodes when the current falls to zero. The frequency response may be better than predicted by this measure. Since it will operate at lower frequencies, the capacitance between the electrodes is less likely to be an issue.

What is the gate current? Have you tried using a finer grid of insulated wire?

I have appropriate test equipment for calibrating a frequency response curve for such a device. I doubt I'll have time, but it would be great fun to make something like this and characterise it.
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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I suspect there is a gain of less than 1. As Steve asked, what is the grid current?

Bob
 

ColdSunday

Oct 3, 2018
3
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Oct 3, 2018
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Thanks for answering this thread!

Tbh I did never try an insulated grid, but by try and error I discovered that the grid must have a good space between the horizontal parts of the serpentine. Otherwise it will malfunction.

Measuring the grid current is tricky as the triode I used back then is really dry (It was a paper one). But I've put some Ethilic alcohol on it and measured everything again:

Note that by that time I used lemon juice as the electrolyte, so results may change a bit.
The battery (9v EVEREADY) Is actually around 8.25 Volts and it gives .40 Amps when shorted directly through the digital multimeter/ ammeter
My voltmeter becomed crazy and didn't want to measure the current with the triode in series... (It's cheap by far... :) ) But since the battery gets shorted between grid/gate and one of the other two electrodes, be sure the grid current is by .40 to .35 Amps. (amps NOT miliamps. I used the 10A function)

I think that's enough. Any ideas if using some kind of bias it will be possible to make an amplifier? I will try with the insulated grid to see what happens but I don't think it's gonna work... Maybe it does.

I also wanted to correct myself with the expression "bottle tap" I was sure it was correct. Btw it's bottle cap ^^

Hope that helped.
 

BobK

Jan 5, 2010
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It is unlikely with a current gain I calculate as 18 / 350 or 0.05

Bob
 
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