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Machine 5 position selector switch

Discussion in 'Datasheets, Manuals and Component Identification' started by Mewnwr, Nov 4, 2020.

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  1. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

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    0
    Nov 4, 2020
    Hi please can someone help identify the 100v components in the attached photo showing a control switch on old workshop machine and how to find replacement new parts, thanks. 20201104_084817-1.jpg
     
  2. bertus

    bertus Moderator

    1,864
    707
    Nov 8, 2019
    Hello,

    Why do you think they need to be replaced?
    Perhaps only the switch needs some cleaning.
    What is written on the other parts?
    I see one with 6800 and one with 4700 on it.

    Bertus
     
    HellasTechn and shrtrnd like this.
  3. Harald Kapp

    Harald Kapp Moderator Moderator

    11,513
    2,651
    Nov 17, 2011
    I agree, checking the switch first, possibly cleaning is advised.
    When it comes to replacing the switch, one will have to know the contact arrangement. From the external looks a substitute could possibly be this one.
    Do you have a wiring diagram of the machine where we can see how the contact arrangement of the switch is made?

    The yellow bricks are capacitors:
    - 6800 is 6800 pF equal to 6.8 nF
    - 4700 is 4700 pF equal to 4.7 nF
    These are film capacitors. They do not easily fail, even after a long time. If you're really in need of replacing them, you can buy them e.g. here.
     
    shrtrnd likes this.
  4. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

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    Nov 4, 2020
    Thanks for quick reply. Firstly I am not trained in electronics but have a basic knowledge and have repaired various components in the past but this is difficult for me to find the problem with the machine which was working up until 4 weeks ago. I have no wiring diagram for the machine and this part of the machine is a high frequency output unit which supplies voltage and current to a cutting wire (it is a wire cutting machine which uses a molybdenum wire). I am getting voltage on the machine voltmeter but no current on the Ammeter. This has happened in the past and I have overcome the breakdown by moving the control switch to a different position and then I get current. The last time this happened I turned the switch to position 5 which is the last one. I will add a photo of the front of the switch and also a photo of the whole supply unit (as I said it is very old). I have found one component which looks to have damage to it so will post photo also, I think it may be a resistor but not sure what resistance I should get on a meter. It is difficult to get anyone to look at this for me with no wiring diagram so it is up to me to check all that I can to try and find the problem.
    There are 6 of those capacitors and details are below;
    2 large at 6800
    1 large at 4700
    1 large at 2200
    2 small at 820
    1 small at 510
    I only thought that it may have been one of them as when I selected pos 5 on the switch it gave me current. None of the switch positions from 1 to 5 gives any current now but the problem may be somewhere else.

    20201104_180552-3.jpg
    20201104_175542-2.jpg
    20201104_094308-5.jpg
    SmartSelect_20201104-180825_Gallery.jpg
     
  5. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    As others have said, check the switch, most likely failure point.
     
  6. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

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    0
    Nov 4, 2020
    Ok I will check that out first to see if there are any problems with it. It looks very complicated and difficult to see inside with all the contact points. Do you mean to use electrical cleaner while it is still connected in machine or remove everything from it and take it apart out of machine. Any suggestions to which is best way to check this switch out from position 1 to 5 would help, thanks.
     
  7. Bluejets

    Bluejets

    4,834
    1,014
    Oct 5, 2014
    Taking it apart will more than likely destroy it and proove nothing.
    A good clean with contact cleaner while running the switch back and forth might just do the job.

    As far as the switch operation, cannot see it properly in the photos you provided.
    Does look like a 2 pole unit though and if one looks closely as it is operated, one can actually see how it contacts from a central bar, through the contact arm to the outer rim contacts.
    As for the actual circuit of what it switches to where, you would need to meter that out (or visual in this instance) and draw an appropriate diagram.

    Below is an example of different rotary switches.........
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  8. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

    8
    0
    Nov 4, 2020
    Ok thanks I will give it a good clean as you said and check the switch positions to see which contacts make the output together and make diagram of this if I am still having problems and post it here. If all is ok with the switch when checking with meter can those film capacitors be checked without removing them off switch.
     
  9. Bluejets

    Bluejets

    4,834
    1,014
    Oct 5, 2014
    You need to isolate the caps from the circuit so lifting at least one leg is a must.
    Simply snip the cap lead close to the terminal, then resolder when finished.
    Not a brain operation.

    It might be possible to test if the cap is switched out of circuit but it would be more complex to determine this.
     
  10. Minder

    Minder

    3,092
    661
    Apr 24, 2015
    If you do require a switch, Digikey list 10,000 in their site ad!
    Grayhill is one popular make.
    Also in some cases the need to know if it is break before make etc.
    M.
     
  11. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

    8
    0
    Nov 4, 2020
    Hi been unable to continue with repair for many days but managed to check and clean the switch and it seems to be ok. I have tested contact switch positions with meter and all seem to be ok. I will check the capacitors as you described. Also I have found some other capacitors from another part of the machine and one was broken from connection point. There are 3 of these and when I checked the loose one I cant seem to get reading. Again they are old ones but can you help with a modern equivalent, thanks....
     

    Attached Files:

  12. bertus

    bertus Moderator

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    Nov 8, 2019
  13. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

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    Nov 4, 2020
    Hi thanks for this information, silly question but is this an ac or dc capacitor. Also I may post few more photo's of old components for your help with modern equivalents if I find any that I think need replacing. Also there are some components which I am not sure of would you be able to identify them for me, thanks.
     
  14. bertus

    bertus Moderator

    1,864
    707
    Nov 8, 2019
    Hello,

    That capacitor can be used for both AC and DC.

    Bertus
     
  15. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

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    Nov 4, 2020
    Ok thanks just ordered them..Also this is confusing me slightly, attached is a photo of 2 transformers which are looped at at the rear which you can see from the main plan view in an earlier posted photo. The supply is stated on them as 220v to 230v and outputs are 50v and 15v. The input supply from main machine is 157v ac shown as yellow wire and the output brown wire is going to a cooling fan rated at 240v Transformers#1.jpg which you can also see in the main plan of view. The outputs 50v and 15v are well down on those values. Is this normal, do you think that the machine manufacturer has deliberately put a lower input into transformer to achieve a lower output than stated on the transformer. This is the problems I am facing with no Electrical drawings at all for the machine. I can check all the values on both transformers tomorrow and post findings.
     
  16. Bluejets

    Bluejets

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    Oct 5, 2014
    So yellow and brown (orange in photo) are primary for both.
    Input 157v into a 220v transformer will give and output of 157/220 ...... 0.72 x 50v and 15v ....so .... 35v and 10.8v approx.
    A fan running on 70% is not going to make much difference.
    Reason why the builder did it this way, no idea.
    Maybe that was the most economical at the time as far as transformers were concerned or that was all that was available.
    Perhaps the output is regulated out further down the line and it was made for 220v mains input as well.
    Maybe it broke sometime in the past and someone did a modification.
     
  17. Mewnwr

    Mewnwr

    8
    0
    Nov 4, 2020
    Hi I traced the wiring in machine and found the supply which is giving the 157v is from a variable resistor which you will see in photos attached. I can adjust this voltage which then supplies the transformer with 240v, I will check all outputs from the transformers and let you know these values. I also have checked the capacitors on the 5 pole switch which I removed from the High Frequency box and they are all reading very close to value stated on them. I am now making a wiring diagram for the HF box as I need to check all the components to see if any have failed and that is the reason why I am getting no current on the ammeter which supplies the power to cutting function of the machine. There are components which I am not familiar with and some are mounted on or underneath metal frames so 2020-10-29 10.27.18#2.jpg 2020-11-04 18.03.57#2.jpg 2020-11-11 12.34.53#2.jpg 2020-11-11 12.48.06#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.14.15#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.16.40#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.17.39#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.20.49#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.23.02#2.jpg 2020-11-11 18.24.29#2.jpg 2020-11-22 13.41.24#2.jpg I have posted general plan view of the HF box and numbered them. Can you help with description of them and what their function is in the box. When I finish the drawing I will post it so you can see the layout of wiring to every component and hopefully you can help me with the reason I get no output from the red wire on the front panel of the HF box which links directly to the ammeter and is also shown in the photos. I will post photo of the front of machine to show the volt and current meters but have not taken photo of them yet, thanks.
     
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