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LTspice Measurements

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by rickman, Feb 23, 2013.

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  1. rickman

    rickman Guest

    I have always found the documents for LTspice to be rather spartan at
    best. It looks like there are a lot of third parties who are helping by
    chipping in their shots at tutorials and docs. But they are mostly
    introductions and getting started guides covering only the most basic
    stuff.

    I am trying to do what should be some simple measurements on a tuned
    circuit. I want to see how various additions to a circuit alter the
    tuned frequency, bandwidth and Q. So it would be nice to get these
    numbers automagically. I've figured out how to get the bandwidth and
    the tuned frequency and even the Q. But it printed the frequency and Q
    in dB. The tuned frequency is no problem as it is also displayed
    linearly, but I can't find a way to display the calculated Q as a simple
    number other than doing the reverse dB calculation so it displays the
    proper number but with a dB label... obviously not my first choice.

    I can't find any docs on how I might tell LTspice how to format a
    measurement display. Does that exist somewhere? Here are the commands
    I am using...

    ..MEAS AC tmp max mag(V(N002,N001)); find the peak response and call it "tmp"
    ..MEAS AC BW trig mag(V(N002,N001))=tmp/sqrt(2) rise=1
    + targ mag(V(N002,N001))=tmp/sqrt(2) fall=last
    ..MEAS AC centerfreq WHEN mag(V(N002,N001))=tmp
    ..MEAS AC Q PARAM pow(10,centerfreq/(BW*20))

    Here is what this displays

    tmp: MAX(mag(v(n002,n001)))=(40.5139dB,0°) FROM 59000 TO 61000
    bw=565.564 FROM 59716.6 TO 60282.1
    centerfreq: mag(v(n002,n001))=tmp AT 60000
    q: pow(10,centerfreq/(bw*20))=(106.089dB,0°)

    It would be a bit nicer if this last line just displayed...

    q: centerfreq/bw=106.089
     
  2. Fred Abse

    Fred Abse Guest

    Try setting:
    ..opt meascplxfmt cartesian
     
  3. rickman

    rickman Guest

    Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. Fred Abse

    Fred Abse Guest

    I just tried it here (4.12u), same result.

    I'm sure I used it in the past. That's progress!
     
  5. josephkk

    josephkk Guest

    If you can post or otherwise make the full sim .asc file available i could
    take a crack at it. NO promises though, the trick may be beyond me. There
    is an active Yahoo group though.

    ?-)
     
  6. rickman

    rickman Guest

    I got it to work eventually. Not sure what the problem was, but it
    works now. The trouble is it doesn't work for individual lines, it
    switches the setting for the entire session. When I tried inserting two
    commands, one to switch it to Cartesian and one to set it back to Bode,
    it kinda cramped the system and I had to exit and restart LTspice to get
    control of the setting again.

    For parameters that I want displayed linearly I have to calculate the
    anti-dB so when it takes the dB it is correct. I also have to scale it
    so it doesn't overflow the intermediate result. Displaying 1300 is a
    bit too large this way, it has to be 1.3 'k'.

    The good news is that in the meantime I am learning a lot about
    measurement scripts. The docs are rather inadequate, but with enough
    trial and error things can start to work.

    But then I also can't seem to get the simulation to match my
    calculations... go figure.
     
  7. rickman

    rickman Guest

    I've started another thread where I asked about the simulation itself.
    Here is a link to the files.

    http://arius.com/temp/Antenna_trans_LTspice.zip

    Maybe I should have kept it to one thread?

    The measurements are in the schematic, but also in a separate .meas file
    so it can be run repeatedly without rerunning the simulation. File -
    Execute .MEAS Script

    I've asked about the script in the Yahoo group. It is actually pretty
    amazing. This guy Helmut responds like it is his full time job!
     
  8. Fred Abse

    Fred Abse Guest

    Care to tell us what the magic incantation was?
     
  9. Fred Abse

    Fred Abse Guest

    That looks horribly convoluted.

    I posted this a while back, but you may not have seen it. It's just a
    demonstration of varying the coupling between two identical circuits, but
    it might give you a bit of insight into bandwidth measurements.

    It shgould plot automatically.

    Coupling.asc:

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 880 680
    WIRE -32 96 -64 96
    WIRE 96 96 48 96
    WIRE 144 96 96 96
    WIRE 336 96 272 96
    WIRE 448 96 336 96
    WIRE 144 128 144 96
    WIRE 272 128 272 96
    WIRE 336 128 336 96
    WIRE 96 144 96 96
    WIRE -64 160 -64 96
    WIRE 448 160 448 96
    WIRE 96 224 96 208
    WIRE 144 224 144 208
    WIRE 144 224 96 224
    WIRE -64 320 -64 240
    WIRE 64 320 -64 320
    WIRE 144 320 144 224
    WIRE 144 320 64 320
    WIRE 272 320 272 208
    WIRE 272 320 144 320
    WIRE 336 320 336 192
    WIRE 336 320 272 320
    WIRE 448 320 448 240
    WIRE 448 320 336 320
    WIRE 64 368 64 320
    FLAG 64 368 0
    FLAG 272 96 V1
    SYMBOL ind2 128 112 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 1m
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=0
    SYMATTR Type ind
    SYMBOL cap 112 144 M0
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Value 2.53303e-9
    SYMBOL voltage -64 144 R0
    SYMATTR InstName V1
    SYMATTR Value AC 1
    SYMBOL res 64 80 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName Rg
    SYMATTR Value 10k
    SYMBOL ind2 256 112 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L2
    SYMATTR Value 1m
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=0
    SYMATTR Type ind
    SYMBOL cap 320 128 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C2
    SYMATTR Value 2.53303e-9
    SYMBOL res 432 144 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 10k
    TEXT 96 376 Left 2 !.ac lin 1000 50k 150k
    TEXT -80 408 Left 2 !.measure tmp max mag(V(V1))\n.measure BW trig mag(V(V1))=tmp/sqrt(2) rise=1 targ mag(V(V1))=tmp/sqrt(2) fall=last
    TEXT 176 112 Left 2 !K1 l1 l2 {K1}
    TEXT 80 392 Left 2 !.step param K1 0.01 0.2 0.02
    TEXT 312 392 Left 2 !.probe V(V1)
    TEXT 80 64 Left 2 ;Critical coupling occurs at K1=0.062547893
     
  10. rickman

    rickman Guest

    Maybe I mispoke. I got the .options command to work, but it won't do
    what I want. It doesn't work for just a few selected commands.

    Like I said, I don't know what I was doing wrong before. I added the
    command to the other commands in the script on the schematic and it
    changes the mode. This change is persistent until it executes another
    ..option command that changes it to another setting. You don't need to
    use the command on each simulation run.

    Also note that it changes the settings for the graph. If you select
    cartesian it will won't use dB anymore.
     
  11. Fred Abse

    Fred Abse Guest

    Both circuits resonate at exactly 100kHz, as can be seen from the plot,
    most easily on the subcritical coupling runs. They are of equal Q.

    Take a look at each BW measurement, then add half of each bandwidth
    measurement to the respective lower 3dB point.

    All that is varied is the coupling, the fundamental resonance remains the
    same (center frequency), even when the response goes double-humped. That's
    what it is supposed to demonstrate.

    Look up "Universal Selectivity Curves".

    Old fashioned 455kHz IF transformers worked just like this. Nothing tricky
    here, such as stagger tuning.
    I guess the only way is to format the Y axis on the plot itself. You can't
    change the X axis on an .ac analysis, except by changing the .ac directive
    to one of octal, decade, or linear.

    Kraus has useful formulae for the properties of loop antennas, BTW.
     
  12. rickman

    rickman Guest

    Thanks, I'll take a look.
     
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