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Low profile RS232-DB9

Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the
typical DB9 connectors are HUGE! does anyone have suggestions for a
very small, low profile (perhaps even SMT- since this is not going to
be a high use socket)

Thanks
SS
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the
typical DB9 connectors are HUGE! does anyone have suggestions for a
very small, low profile (perhaps even SMT- since this is not going to
be a high use socket)

Thanks
SS
A surface-mount socket with some other mechanical support can be just as
strong as through-hole -- frankly I'd be suspicious of a DB-9
through-hole that didn't have screws or at least clips.

Do you have to use a DB-9, or just a nine pin thing? There are some
pretty small connectors out there if you're willing to step away from
the older standards.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
Honestly I HATE the DB9 connectors and I'd happily do away with it.
However Serial cables are the most widely available for PC-device (no
I can't do USB unfortunately).

what others do you suggest? I only need 2 wires rx/tx ?
 
Honestly I HATE the DB9 connectors and I'd happily do away with it.
However Serial cables are the most widely available for PC-device (no
I can't do USB unfortunately).

what others do you suggest? I only need 2 wires rx/tx ?
And ground. I used a 1/8" stereo headphone jack in one of my projects.
I picked up a few 1/8" to DB-9 cables at the junk store so it all
worked out.
And don't top post. My cat hates that.
 
T

Tim Wescott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Honestly I HATE the DB9 connectors and I'd happily do away with it.
However Serial cables are the most widely available for PC-device (no
I can't do USB unfortunately).

what others do you suggest? I only need 2 wires rx/tx ?
Well, three -- rx, tx and ground.

If it doesn't need to be exposed to the outside you can use anything you
want -- I often use a four- or five-pin header, and make up a matching
cable.

Modular telephone jacks are a popular choice for compact equipment that
needs to run on serial. You still have to make up a matching cable, but
it's done all the time.

If you absolutely positively have to be standard, then you just have to
use a DB-9, and let the tail wag the dog, of course.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
 
C

Christopher Ott

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim Wescott said:
Well, three -- rx, tx and ground.

If it doesn't need to be exposed to the outside you can use anything you
want -- I often use a four- or five-pin header, and make up a matching
cable.

Modular telephone jacks are a popular choice for compact equipment that
needs to run on serial. You still have to make up a matching cable, but
it's done all the time.

If you absolutely positively have to be standard, then you just have to
use a DB-9, and let the tail wag the dog, of course.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

3.5mm audio (microphone type) jacks are a common alternative to the DB-9. A
few minutes with a Digikey catalog should produce some adapter cables which
will give you the most common pinouts. Another advantage is that they're
cheap compared to a DB9.

Chris
 
G

Gerhard

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the
typical DB9 connectors are HUGE! does anyone have suggestions for a
very small, low profile (perhaps even SMT- since this is not going to
be a high use socket)

Thanks
SS
What about using a PS2 (female) connector on your board
Connections Tx, Rx, Gnd & +5v standard as per PC mouse interface.

Then also do the following.

Leave the TTL <-> RS232 level shifter (MAX232)
off the board and obtain some of the MAX232 wired into
the connector shells.
see http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/serial/RCL1.htm
This cable is expensive but one normally only needs a few.
Cable with MAX RS232 can probably be obtained at $10-$15.
Replace the cable with a PS2 extension cable.
Cut the female socket off the eaxtension and wire the
9-Pin shell with MAX 232 onto the cable.
This TTL <-> RS232 cable can be very short and you
can still use a long RS-232 extension.

The onboard serial interface is much cheaper without MAX 232 and caps.

The PS2 (miniature DIN) is not the most robust connector but
I haven't seen reports of connector failures on PC mother boards.

Gerhard van den Berg
CSIR
 
J

John Larkin

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the
typical DB9 connectors are HUGE! does anyone have suggestions for a
very small, low profile (perhaps even SMT- since this is not going to
be a high use socket)

Thanks
SS

We use a 2.5 mm stereo headphone jack for RS-232 on several of our
instruments where we don't have room for a D9, like this one:

http://www.highlandtechnology.com/DSS/V365DS.html

And then we make extra bucks selling the adapter cable!

John
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Honestly I HATE the DB9 connectors and I'd happily do away with it.
However Serial cables are the most widely available for PC-device (no
I can't do USB unfortunately).

what others do you suggest? I only need 2 wires rx/tx ?

Many small devices use a stereo 1/8 jack as the connection
for RX/TX and common.
 
[email protected] wrote:

(top posting fixed)




Well, three -- rx, tx and ground.

If it doesn't need to be exposed to the outside you can use anything you
want -- I often use a four- or five-pin header, and make up a matching
cable.

Modular telephone jacks are a popular choice for compact equipment that
needs to run on serial. You still have to make up a matching cable, but
it's done all the time.

If you absolutely positively have to be standard, then you just have to
use a DB-9, and let the tail wag the dog, of course.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Serviceshttp://www.wescottdesign.com

Posting from Google? Seehttp://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/

"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April.
See details athttp://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

I think the modular phone plug is a better idea. What I don't link
about the stereo phone plugs is they tend to short upon insertion.
Granted, the short is momentary.
 
M

mpm

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the

The RS-232C spec did not specify a connector or pin assignments for
any particular connector.
(And anyone whose ever tried to attach "anything serial" to a Kaypro
already knows this!!)

So basically, you can use whatever connector you like.
But when you make the selection, try using something that won't be
confused with some other standard. For example, it would be a poor
choice to use a USB-style cable for RS-232C, although technically,
that would not violate the RS-232C standard.

Later editions of 232 attempted to standardize the physical interface,
but by then, the genie was out of the bottle. Others here have given
you some good ideas. I would have to concur with the surface mount
comments. 9-pin 232's get a lot of user abuse. Keep that in mind.

-mpm
 
M

mpm

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think the modular phone plug is a better idea. What I don't link
about the stereo phone plugs is they tend to short upon insertion.
Granted, the short is momentary.- Hide quoted text -

Actually, in the original official RS232C spec, you could short any
pin to any other pin for as long as you wanted and it would cause ZERO
damage to the hardware. (Look it up!)

It wouldn't work of course, but you were essentially guaranteed you
wouldn't blow anything up!

Now that said, we all know there were lots of products that weren't
"truly" RS232 compatible....

-mpm
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Actually, in the original official RS232C spec, you could short any pin to
any other pin for as long as you wanted and it would cause ZERO damage to
the hardware. (Look it up!)

It wouldn't work of course, but you were essentially guaranteed you
wouldn't blow anything up!

When I was working at FMC, designing controllers for naval missile
launchers and gun mounts, we made RS-232 drivers/receivers using
discretes, that really WERE short-proof. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
When I was working at FMC, designing controllers for naval missile
launchers and gun mounts, we made RS-232 drivers/receivers using
discretes, that really WERE short-proof. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

How the chip handles short circuits depends on how the power supply
rails are created. For chips with on-board charge pumps or switchers,
the power supply rails are stiff enough to do the job (i.e. 232 and
drive serial mice), but not all that stiff should the output be
shorted. It is a cheesy protection scheme. For the chips I've
designed, the short circuit conditions were considered "indefinite".
Thus you could short it and it would survive, but a short for 24&7
until the cows come home would be a different story.

Using discretes doesn't necessarily save your ass. For instance, if
the power supply rails are stiff, the drivers could get some serious
current. It's been my experience that most discrete designs are not as
rugged as a well designed chip. This is because often chips have
protection circuits not shown in the datasheet. This is to take care
of screw ups in the design-in phase. That is, if you short some pins
that in real life won't get shorted but might get shorted by a clumsy
scope probe AND the chip fails, the product won't get designed in. The
customer will think the part is flaky. Such short circuit protection
is brute force, i.e. set high enough that it will never effect
performance of the part, and often high enough that the short can't be
left there infinitely.

There is a reason most datasheets only show simplified schematics or
just a block diagram. There is much not being shown.
 
M

Michael A. Terrell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi,
I am designing a very small board that has a RS232 connector, the
typical DB9 connectors are HUGE! does anyone have suggestions for a
very small, low profile (perhaps even SMT- since this is not going to
be a high use socket)

Thanks
SS


There are NO DB9 connectors. The proper designation is DE9.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
I think the modular phone plug is a better idea. What I don't link
about the stereo phone plugs is they tend to short upon insertion.
Granted, the short is momentary.

I've never heard of rs232 being damaged by a short-circuit

I've seen some equipment use a 1mm pitch 3x2 pin header, atleast I think
it'a a serial port, the actual label is "console" - it's on a linux
based ADSL modem.
 
J

jasen

Jan 1, 1970
0
When I was working at FMC, designing controllers for naval missile
launchers and gun mounts, we made RS-232 drivers/receivers using
discretes, that really WERE short-proof. ;-)

The only times I've seen a MC1488 or 1489 fail were during an electrical
storm. (none of my dodgy serial cables eved damaged anything)

I never connected mains voltages to a serial port though - did the
naval ones need to withstand something like that?

Bye.
Jasen
 
J

Jamie

Jan 1, 1970
0
jasen said:
The only times I've seen a MC1488 or 1489 fail were during an electrical
storm. (none of my dodgy serial cables eved damaged anything)

I never connected mains voltages to a serial port though - did the
naval ones need to withstand something like that?

Bye.
Jasen
The worse thing you can do is have messy cables where the serial cable
happens to wrap around or be in line with the AC cables during a near
by strike.
the induced currents will transfer to the serial and over load it.
I for one, lost 2 keyboards this way..
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
The only times I've seen a MC1488 or 1489 fail were during an electrical
storm. (none of my dodgy serial cables eved damaged anything)

I never connected mains voltages to a serial port though - did the
naval ones need to withstand something like that?

Well, you've got me on that one - maybe for that they depended on the
difference in connectors. In any case I know they were terribly robust,
because they were designed to be used on a Navy ship, and survive under
combat conditions.

Thanks!
Rich
 
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