Low-Power Solar?

[j]

I'm looking in to putting an IP camera on an outbuilding and
maybe one of those flood lights that is triggered by motion.

Running AC to the building sounds more formidable the more I read
about it.

OTOH, a wireless version of the IP camera's 24-7 draw is less
than 10 watts and the flood light could be set up to only shine
for a minute or so after detecting motion.

I did some looking to see what they really draw. It looks like about 4W.
I found this:

http://www.micropowerapp.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Five-Dirty-Secrets-WP1.pdf

Which claims to draw 1/10 as much. In your application power draw is key.

There are a number of solar security light setups on the market. Get a
large one and run the IP camera off the security light battery.


Or, you may wish instead to get a motion monitoring dvr. The one I have
lasts a week on a charge, records in the dark with IR leds, is about the
size of a pack of cigarettes and is under $100. Records several hours
and loops back to the beginning when storage is full so you always have
the last several hours of triggering events. That could be charged
easily on a 6V solar panel.

Or just run power out there. There is outdoor rated wiring, not much
money. Slit a trench and be done. Put it on a GFCI circuit breaker.

Jeff

 

[Jim Wilkins]

Or, you may wish instead to get a motion monitoring dvr. The one I have
lasts a week on a charge, records in the dark with IR leds, is about the
size of a pack of cigarettes and is under $100. Records several hours and
loops back to the beginning when storage is full so you always have the
last several hours of triggering events. That could be charged easily on a
6V solar panel.

Or just run power out there. There is outdoor rated wiring, not much
money. Slit a trench and be done. Put it on a GFCI circuit breaker.

Jeff

"Game" or "Trail" cameras do that too, and are waterproof (?).

This one is small enough to be inconspicuous.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Tasco-5MP-Trail-Camera-with-Night-Vision/16933396

The LEDs are visible at night if you are already looking towards them, and
if you aren't it won't catch your face. It works better if combined with
other motion-sensitive lights to extend its short range and conceal the
dimly visible IR LEDs.

In the daytime it works pretty well, though don't expect to read license
plates beyond 100 feet. The trigger time is too slow to catch someone
walking past quickly.

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per j:

Or, you may wish instead to get a motion monitoring dvr. The one I have
lasts a week on a charge, records in the dark with IR leds, is about the
size of a pack of cigarettes and is under $100.

That sounds attractive. Make/Model?

 

[j]

Use a DitchWitch, try for 18" deep and settle for 6"
if necessary (we are on a shale ridge)

http://www.familyhandyman.com/DIY-P...tall-outdoor-lighting-and-outlet/Step-By-Step

http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?p=49

UF is cheap. Run conduit if you are running other wiring or such.

Where is your frost line?

Jeff

 

[Jim Wilkins]

..
UF is cheap. Run conduit if you are running other wiring or such.
..

If the other wiring includes camera coax you might make the conduit large
enough to pass molded connectors.

jsw

 

[j]

Per j:

That sounds attractive. Make/Model?

I think this is what I have:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...me+Automation-_-Dakota+Alert-_-9SIA05W0195607

I've used it lightly so I can't give a good review on it. The video
quality just seems fair.

There are others that may be better. Note, Jim's post on game cameras. A
trip to a sporting goods store may be in your future.

Jeff

 

[j]

How about running 24VAC from a control transformer through the long wire and
converting to 12V at the destination?
http://www.altex.com/24VAC-to-12VDC...ew-Terminals-500mA-max-PIAD-AC24-P143407.aspx

You gain better voltage regulation and more watts down the wire, but the
equipment is a little harder to find and set up.

That's not a bad idea for those reasons. The 350mA might be a little
tight on his current needs though. 24 volt transformer are readily
available.

I found this online calculator:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-wire-resistance.htm

200' of 18 gauge @ .5A = .65 volts (note I am not sure that calculator
does do 2 wire, it is in the name though)

Probably a volt or two of loss is acceptably as 12v supplies are a volt
or two above 12V, unless heavily loaded.

Note that a simple supply off a 12v transformer, will put out
something close to 18V DC under no load. Too much for many electronics
with 16 volt caps!

Jeff

 

[Vaughn]

On 1/26/2012 1:52 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

UF is cheap. Run conduit if you are running other wiring or such.

Where is your frost line?

Actually, UF isn't all that cheap, but the problem isn't the cost of the
cable or the cost of the conduit, it's the cost and disruption of
digging the ditch. You can repair damaged UF once or twice perhaps, but
to replace it you need a whole new ditch. If you put conduit in the
ground and plan ahead with extras, you only need dig the ditch once.

Vaughn

 

[j]

Actually, UF isn't all that cheap, but the problem isn't the cost of the
cable or the cost of the conduit, it's the cost and disruption of
digging the ditch. You can repair damaged UF once or twice perhaps, but
to replace it you need a whole new ditch. If you put conduit in the
ground and plan ahead with extras, you only need dig the ditch once.

I've used UF but have no experience in ground so I defer to your
expertise. Conduit is certainly cheap. But I wonder, how does buried UF
get damaged that wouldn't damage plastic conduit? I suppose two or even
three conduits would give you room to expand or replace.

For most labor intensive projects these days I rely on little Spanish
speaking guys!

Jeff

 

[Vaughn]

But I wonder, how does buried UF
get damaged that wouldn't damage plastic conduit?

PVC, especially Schedule 40 PVC, will stop a shovel. That same shovel
can easily damage UF cable.

The worst situation is when UF just gets nicked. Months or years later,
when you have forgotten all about where you dug up that bush, the cable
will finally succumb to the wound. It will either short to ground, or
burn open. Now you can't pinpoint the fault, so the only way to fix it
is to dig a new ditch.

On the other hand, When you damage conduit, you simply dig a pothole,
fix the conduit, then pull new conductors. No new ditch!

I suppose two or even
three conduits would give you room to expand or replace.

Yes, and the "expansion" might not even be electrical. I have water and
air lines going out to my shed.

For most labor intensive projects these days I rely on little Spanish
speaking guys!

Don't remind me! We just a bunch of those busy little guys swarming the
roof of our house. Brand new concrete tile roof. The roofing they tore
off was over 50 years old. That roof cost more than double what I paid
for my first house!

Just think of it as economic stimulus.

(Getting back to solar) Not wanting to penetrate that expensive roof is
one big reason why I'm unlikely to ever have a big solar system.

Vaughn

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Vaughn:

Actually, UF isn't all that cheap, but the problem isn't the cost of the
cable or the cost of the conduit, it's the cost and disruption of
digging the ditch. You can repair damaged UF once or twice perhaps, but
to replace it you need a whole new ditch. If you put conduit in the
ground and plan ahead with extras, you only need dig the ditch once.

I've decided in favor of the ditch and 2" PVC conduit. Home
Depot here has something called a "Ground Hog" that rents for
something like $120 for the day and cuts a little trench just
about the right width. Guy at Home Depot says it will even chew
through certain kinds of rock (we're on a shale ridge...).

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per j:

I think this is what I have:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...me+Automation-_-Dakota+Alert-_-9SIA05W0195607

I've used it lightly so I can't give a good review on it. The video
quality just seems fair.

There are others that may be better. Note, Jim's post on game cameras. A
trip to a sporting goods store may be in your future.

Jeff

Actually, I have a game camera - but want to go to an IP cam.

I'm testing a few: a couple of FosCam 640x480's with different
size lenses, an EdiMax 1280x1024, and a muy expensivo Sony
1920x1080. If somebody is willing to put up with a little
foreplay, they can be viewed at PeteCress.DynDNS.org:8080

One mode involves using IE and letting the web page download an
ActiveX control, for the other you need to click something like
"JAVA/JPEG Viewer" up to the right of "Blue Iris Remote View".

Click on one of the camera names to get the full image for that
camera. On my PC, at least, rolling the mouse wheel zooms.

ID/PW = guest/aardvark, but it won't be good forever.

 

[j]

On 2/14/2012 2:11 PM, j wrote:
Don't remind me! We just a bunch of those busy little guys swarming the
roof of our house. Brand new concrete tile roof. The roofing they tore
off was over 50 years old.

Not bad lifespan! Must have been a hell of a dumpster load.

That roof cost more than double what I paid

for my first house!
Wow!

Just think of it as economic stimulus.

Yes, they spend their money very fast! I've seen Amish with smaller and
less needy families.

(Getting back to solar) Not wanting to penetrate that expensive roof is
one big reason why I'm unlikely to ever have a big solar system.

I had thought of roof mounting too before I put on my new roof!

I may put in solar hot water out at the property perimeter where I get
some sun. The idea would be to store it there and run insulated lines to
the house. The pumping loss is not much, but the thermal loss may be. I
suppose you are talking PV though, which I can't justify the cost yet.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Vaughn:

Don't remind me! We just a bunch of those busy little guys swarming the
roof of our house. Brand new concrete tile roof. The roofing they tore
off was over 50 years old. That roof cost more than double what I paid
for my first house!

I think of it more as roofers out of work.

Our new roof was put on by the same outfit that put the previous
one on. Only this time, nobody on the crew spoke English except
for one guy who was the spokesman - who had a few words.

8-10 people worked on that job. All I could think of was that
the 8-10 local guys that put on the previous roof are now out of
work and the 8-10 guys that did the latest one are going back to
Mexico after their work visas expire.

 

[[email protected]]

That's not a bad idea for those reasons. The 350mA might be a little
tight on his current needs though. 24 volt transformer are readily
available.

I found this online calculator:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-wire-resistance.htm

200' of 18 gauge @ .5A = .65 volts (note I am not sure that calculator
does do 2 wire, it is in the name though)

Probably a volt or two of loss is acceptably as 12v supplies are a volt
or two above 12V, unless heavily loaded.

Note that a simple supply off a 12v transformer, will put out
something close to 18V DC under no load. Too much for many electronics
with 16 volt caps!

Jeff

I'd go with 18 or 24 volts AC down the line with a 2:1 transformer,
rectifier, and regulator at the end. The 18 or 24 volts will lose less
in the cable because of lower current, and have more headway to play
with at the bottom end.

A small Variac will work well for the bottom end transformer, allowing
you to "taylor" the ratio. Use a full wave bridge on the secondary and
run it through a 1.5 amp regulator chip (7812 in a TO220 case on a
good heat sink). Set the voltage just a few volts high (say 15 volts
DC) so the regulator works but does not need to dissipate much power
as heat. Small Variacs are generally available surplus, at not bad
prices.
Alternatively, just run the 18 volt doorbell transformer and the
bridge rectifier and bare regulator at the bottom end.

The bridge rectifiers are dirt cheap too - or you can make your own
with 4 regular diodes (salvaged from an old PC power supply if you
want to be "cheap")
Some old PC supplies even had the 7812 available (or 7912 - regulates
the - instead of the +, but can be used just as well.)

 

[[email protected]]

I've used UF but have no experience in ground so I defer to your
expertise. Conduit is certainly cheap. But I wonder, how does buried UF
get damaged that wouldn't damage plastic conduit? I suppose two or even
three conduits would give you room to expand or replace.

For most labor intensive projects these days I rely on little Spanish
speaking guys!

Jeff

For the low voltage wire a cheap garden hose works to allow relativly
simple cable replacement - just make sure to pack around it with sand,
not gravel.

 

[Vaughn]

For the low voltage wire a cheap garden hose works to allow relativly
simple cable replacement - just make sure to pack around it with sand,
not gravel.

I've seen people bury garden hose, then been really sorry when it
collapsed from the pressure of the backfill. PVC is cheap! Perhaps
cheaper than garden hose.

That said...I have used old "throwaway" garden hose as conduit to
protect irrigation cable. In that case, I expect the hose to collapse
underground and consider it a bonus if it doesn't.

Vaughn

 

[j]

Per j:

Actually, I have a game camera - but want to go to an IP cam.

I'm testing a few: a couple of FosCam 640x480's with different
size lenses, an EdiMax 1280x1024, and a muy expensivo Sony
1920x1080. If somebody is willing to put up with a little
foreplay, they can be viewed at PeteCress.DynDNS.org:8080

No static IP?

It looked to me that they are all useable and they are all a bit blown
out. I suppose that is normal for a contrasty night shot. One did not
look better than the others at the web resolution, to me. Although one
appeared to have less "color" depth, such that you could see steps in
the gray scale.

Which one are you favoring?

Thanks for the look.

Jeff

 

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per j:

No static IP?

DynDns seems to do the job cheaper.

It looked to me that they are all useable and they are all a bit blown
out. I suppose that is normal for a contrasty night shot. One did not
look better than the others at the web resolution, to me. Although one
appeared to have less "color" depth, such that you could see steps in
the gray scale.

Which one are you favoring?

I think the same-ness is an artifact of the Blue Iris
presentation/bandwidth. Locally there is a huge diff between
the Sony and the FosCam. If you look again, zoom in on the
lettering of the Stop sign and it will show.

Right now I'm not thinking so much in terms of make/model camera
as in what resolutions work.

The Sony at 1920x1080 is, of course the hands-down favorite - but
it costs almost a thousand bucks.

The EdiMax - at 1290x1024 and less than a tenth of that price -
seems to me to have adequate resolution for most tasks, but it is
not weatherproof, does not seem to accept different lenses, and
does not do IR.

I think the 640x480 FosCams (at $80 each and with IR) could have
a role for small views - like the shot of the side of the car. I
have some alternate lenses coming and we'll see.... But for
other than small views like a doorway or the side of that car, it
seems to me like 640x480 just does not offer enough resolution
for facial recognition.

HD is awfully pricey.... 1280x1024 seems to me like the sweet
spot for my anticipated use.

I've got an el-cheapo ($18) enclosure coming and then we'll see
about the EdiMax and maybe some motion-sensing floodlights to get
around the lack of IR.

I'm a little puzzled about the vast preponderance of 640x480
cams. Unencumbered by any real knowledge, it seems to me like
the only diff between 640x480 and 1280x1024 would be the sensor
they put in the cam - and the $80 EdiMax would seem tb proof that
the more capable sensor doesn't have to add that much to the
price.

 

[j]

Per j:

DynDns seems to do the job cheaper.



I think the same-ness is an artifact of the Blue Iris
presentation/bandwidth. Locally there is a huge diff between
the Sony and the FosCam. If you look again, zoom in on the
lettering of the Stop sign and it will show.

Right now I'm not thinking so much in terms of make/model camera
as in what resolutions work.

The Sony at 1920x1080 is, of course the hands-down favorite - but
it costs almost a thousand bucks.

The EdiMax - at 1290x1024 and less than a tenth of that price -
seems to me to have adequate resolution for most tasks, but it is
not weatherproof, does not seem to accept different lenses, and
does not do IR.

I think the 640x480 FosCams (at $80 each and with IR) could have
a role for small views - like the shot of the side of the car. I
have some alternate lenses coming and we'll see.... But for
other than small views like a doorway or the side of that car, it
seems to me like 640x480 just does not offer enough resolution
for facial recognition.

HD is awfully pricey.... 1280x1024 seems to me like the sweet
spot for my anticipated use.

I think getting HD at low light levels (and large depth of field) is
expensive. For the same size sensor, the 1080 HD pixels are a fraction
of the size of 640x480. I say that because 1080 HD in pocket cameras is
getting ubiquitous. The video on a $100 or so camera is quite good, but
it doesn't have the sensitivity (or weather resistance) of a
surveillance camera.

The market for surveillance is also a fraction of that for snapshot video.

I've got an el-cheapo ($18) enclosure coming and then we'll see
about the EdiMax and maybe some motion-sensing floodlights to get
around the lack of IR.

I'm a little puzzled about the vast preponderance of 640x480
cams.

640 x 480 works well on conventional tube TVs, it's actually a bit more
horizontal resolution than they are capable of. The 480 is close to the
uncropped 520 or so scan lines. Adapted to old technology..., I believe
they call that VGA resolution.

Keep us informed how this goes, you've got quite an experiment going.

Jeff


Unencumbered by any real knowledge, it seems to me like