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Losing monitoring customers to Internet phones

  • Thread starter Paul Brewington
  • Start date
P

Paul Brewington

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any comments on this? I have lost 3 customers to voip internet phone
in past 3 months.

Usually I get a call saying their alarm panel went off but no one
called them. I explain to them that security monitoring uses the
phone line they disconnected. I tell them to get a basic phone line
and they say they don't want to. Just cancle.

Anybody know how to keep these customers?
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Did you even TRY hooking the panels up to the VOIP just to see if they
worked?
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
I lost a couple to DSL, and a couple have ask me to send them a dsl filter
for their alarm or stop by and put one in.
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, I am deep into this issue right now for the same reasons. Bottom line,
our industry is not prepared for the onslaught of VoIP. The North American
forecast is for 500,000 connections to come on line this year, and this will
translate into a lot of lost business for all unless the alarm industry
finds a solution.

From what I can determine, only SIA format and the older 4/2 pulse formats
will work at all and Contact ID not at all. The other issue is the sometimes
questionable reliability of the internet connection itself. Plus a power
outage will bring down the connection unless the router or cable modem has a
power backup supply. I put one client up on an experimental basis to see if
it will work with VoIP, with daily test signals etc. So far, no problem;
however, it is using the old 4/2 format, and I CANNOT dial in to the panel
at all. Outgoing to the CS seems to be no problem.

For now, I will not put another client on VoIP and most other reputable
companies from what I can determine feel the same way. However, there is
another TCPIP device called a MIP, made by Teldata Security
(www.teldatsecurity.com) that will allow transmission of alarm signals via a
high speed internet connection, and will talk to a special receiver in the
CS that translates signals to that which the conventional alarm software can
understand. Although it's designed to have a convention land line as a
backup service, it seems to be able to be used without one. Whether or not
that should be done is another issue. However, without a backup land line,
that puts you back into the same dilemna as you have with VoIP - lack of a
reliable transmission medium.

I'm going to have a look at the MIP tomorrow at SSI/Burtek and see what can
be done. But frankly, I don't know what to do about this reliability issue
vis a vis my using the internet for services for my company when the client
won't take a land line (either as a primary or secondary path)

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
www.flickr.com/photos/tourman
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh yes, I forgot to mention, this internet device at the website I mentioned
below, ONLY uses Contact ID, which is the one format that doesn't work over
VoIP...

RHC
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Subject: Re: Losing monitoring customers to Internet phones
Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
=> R.H.Campbell <= said:
Oh yes, I forgot to mention, this internet device at the website I mentioned
below, ONLY uses Contact ID, which is the one format that doesn't work over
VoIP...


I got an email from Napco late November 2004 that reads:

(basically saying to ONLY use CID)


NAPCO Tech Support
APPLICATION NOTE
NAPCO Gemini Controls Communicate Over VOIP

The NAPCO Gemini series of control panels can properly report signals to central
station over residential Voice Over Internet Protocol telephone systems, in most
cases. When used in this type of application, the control panel must be
configured to report to central station using the Contact ID reporting format.

Please note that NAPCO has not performed extensive testing of all broadband
providers throughout the United States. This statement is based solely on field
testing to date, testing in the NAPCO lab and on field reports from installation
companies throughout the country.

NAPCO testing also shows that installation of a control panel on a VOIP
telephone system in some cases affects the reliability of remote downloading to
the control panel. Changes have been made in the latest version of the NAPCO
PCD-Windows Quickloader (V4.4 or greater) to optimize downloading control panels
over VOIP.

Please be aware of the following warnings:

* It is strongly recommended that all installations that communicate to
central station over VOIP telephone systems be thoroughly tested at the time of
installation to insure that all signals are received by the central station. It
is also strongly recommended that automatic communication tests are performed at
least once a week to insure ongoing system integrity.
* It is strongly recommended that a back-up method of communication be
provided to insure that the system is capable of reporting signals to central
station in the event of a power failure that incapacitates the broadband modem
and router.
* It is recommended that the broadband modem and router are kept in a secure
location to avoid inadvertent disconnection by the subscriber.
* Always insure that the installation is properly line seized.
* Always insure that the POTS telephone lines have been completely
disconnected from the telephone wiring after the conversion to VOIP.

In summary, the recommended medium for central station alarm transmission is a
basic telephone land line. However, if VOIP is the only method of communication
available for a given installation, and the warnings and recommendations above
are addressed, NAPCO testing indicates that the Gemini series control panels
will communicate properly to central station over VOIP.
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've done two Vonage clients without a problem. In fact I'm waiting for one guy to call me back right now - it'll be my third...take-over remotely, then go service it tomorrow. The product I use doesn't have a problem. I have a problem with wanting them to put backup power on the Vonage box though.
 
A

Allan Waghalter

Jan 1, 1970
0
I am having no trouble with my Napco panels and VoIP. I have given the
operational warnings such as no service without AC power, cable
unreliability, loss of UL complieance, etc to my customers via my last
several newsletters. It seems now that most people are calling me before
they switch to VoIP. I have advised them to insist that the cable company
route the dial tone out to the demark and connect in place of the land line.
This way my line seizure is not interupted. Their instruction is to call me
after the installation so we can run test to make sure it is working
correctly. If the cable company does not wire according to my request, we
initiate a customer paid service call to wire the alarm correctly to the
phone line.

Most of my equipment is Napco. When the phone is correctly connected, I can
access the panel for upload/download. I am using a practical periripherals
1200 modem and using contact ID. If I use the windows version of Napco's
software, I may or may not connect and stay on line for the entire session.
Using the Dos version, the worse problem I have had is that I may have to
start the upload/download a second or third time, but it eventually comes
through just fine.

Central station is receiving the signals correctly.

Allan
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well that's interesting news to me. CANASA in their latest bulletin
indicated quite differently. However, perhaps things are moving along more
quickly now. But Napco's indication that CID will work seems to be opposite
to any information I can get my hands on

However, until the reliability issues are resolved at an industry wide level
(not just one manufacturer), I for one will be continuing to turn away
customers. It will be wait and see for me...

RHC
 
nope, as its a $300K fine to use VOIP here in the Bahamas - plus local
calls are free... so there is no need to get rid of the normal phone.
Ofcourse everyone uses VOIP anyway, but its only for long distance ..

Forget those idiots and move on .. VOIP is not a replacement for a
regular phone.
 
P

petem

Jan 1, 1970
0
The only way to make it is to use there crave for a new gadget...

since they want to go all the ip then provide them with an ip transmitter..

the problem is to find a central station that can receive it...
 
P

petem

Jan 1, 1970
0
I would be more then septical then to use any info given by CANASA

they dont have very strong technical expertise..they are much more into
management...
at least here in Quebec..this kind of info must have come from a few member
that had problem and i am pretty sure it was not even confirmed by any test
 
P

petem

Jan 1, 1970
0
Are you telling us that if you use a voip device at home you could be fine
$300K??

the telephone company must belown to close friend of the government....;-)
 
The phone company IS the government! They are a monopoly, as is the
cable company (which is canadian with bahamian investors)
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.H.Campbell said:
Yes, I am deep into this issue right now for the same reasons. Bottom line,
our industry is not prepared for the onslaught of VoIP. The North American
forecast is for 500,000 connections to come on line this year, and this will
translate into a lot of lost business for all unless the alarm industry
finds a solution.

Only 500,000? I'd bet thats a VERY lowball figure
From what I can determine, only SIA format and the older 4/2 pulse formats
will work at all and Contact ID not at all.

Actually its CID and pulse down here, SIA has the hardest time

The other issue is the sometimes
questionable reliability of the internet connection itself. Plus a power
outage will bring down the connection unless the router or cable modem has a
power backup supply.

I've been told several cablemodems now have battery backup, have yet to see
one tho
I put one client up on an experimental basis to see if
it will work with VoIP, with daily test signals etc. So far, no problem;
however, it is using the old 4/2 format, and I CANNOT dial in to the panel
at all. Outgoing to the CS seems to be no problem.

Opposite for me, I've had them where I could download no problem but not
send signals
For now, I will not put another client on VoIP and most other reputable
companies from what I can determine feel the same way. However, there is
another TCPIP device called a MIP, made by Teldata Security
(www.teldatsecurity.com) that will allow transmission of alarm signals via a
high speed internet connection, and will talk to a special receiver in the
CS that translates signals to that which the conventional alarm software can
understand. Although it's designed to have a convention land line as a
backup service, it seems to be able to be used without one. Whether or not
that should be done is another issue. However, without a backup land line,
that puts you back into the same dilemna as you have with VoIP - lack of a
reliable transmission medium.

Only problem with modules like that is they almost never support SIA and
can't deal with 10-digit Contact ID accounts
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
R.H.Campbell said:
Well that's interesting news to me. CANASA in their latest bulletin
indicated quite differently. However, perhaps things are moving along more
quickly now. But Napco's indication that CID will work seems to be opposite
to any information I can get my hands on

However, until the reliability issues are resolved at an industry wide level
(not just one manufacturer), I for one will be continuing to turn away
customers. It will be wait and see for me...

RHC

RH it ends up that some formats work fine and some don't, while Napco states
use CID I know of several areas where that will not work
 
G

G. Morgan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Subject: Re: Losing monitoring customers to Internet phones
Newsgroup: alt.security.alarms
=> Mark Leuck <= said:
RH it ends up that some formats work fine and some don't, while Napco states
use CID I know of several areas where that will not work


Does it depend on the VOIP provider?
 
?

--

Jan 1, 1970
0
Any comments on this? I have lost 3 customers to voip internet phone
in past 3 months.

Usually I get a call saying their alarm panel went off but no one
called them. I explain to them that security monitoring uses the
phone line they disconnected. I tell them to get a basic phone line
and they say they don't want to. Just cancle.

Anybody know how to keep these customers?

Some are ignorant, others realize that when they keep monitoring,
theyre alarm system will never been theyre anymore.

I got an interesting answer from somebody to my remark subject
ownership.. I recommend you to look at it and to use it as a good
reference.

Surely it depends on the "terms of the contract" you negotiate.
In my case I originally installed a DIY system. Then, when the panel
(Wickes) proved unreliable, I had a panel changed by a professional
installer to Scantronics 9488+ but I insisted on having:
- a full installation manual and
- engineering access code.
In that way I could but did not have to use his services again.
I did not sign any maintenance contract but if I did I would ensure
it is only for a year and does not give the installer any rights to
the system.

Good advise to think over.
 
J

jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul Brewington said:
Any comments on this? I have lost 3 customers to voip internet phone
in past 3 months.

Usually I get a call saying their alarm panel went off but no one
called them. I explain to them that security monitoring uses the
phone line they disconnected. I tell them to get a basic phone line
and they say they don't want to. Just cancle.

Anybody know how to keep these customers?

Use a TCP/IP application and keep them. Sooner or later you'll have to learn
this technology.
 
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