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Looking for UV LEDs ...tia SAL

S

sal

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

TIA
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.

There aren't any LEDs in production yet producing germicidal UV. Also,
expect any earlier model such LEDs to not irradiate the whole inside of
your mouth to kill bacteria all over within an hour - germicidal lamps
that resemble fluorescent lamps are better for this and will be even when
such LEDs do become available.

More considerations:

1. Sufficient germicidal UV to kill bacteria kills the top layer to few
layers of cells of all exposed tissue in your mouth that has live cells
exposed to the UV.

2. Human cells damaged but not killed by UV may have genetic
damage that could cause cancer.

3. Bacteria in locations shaded from the UV survive and could replenish
the plaque in your mouth in less than a day. Bacteria under the gumline
are shaded from germicidal UV.

I recommend brushing and flossing, brushing with fluoride-containing
toothpaste, drinking fluoridated water, and getting the tooth surface
treatments that dentists normally provide.

With usual good cavity prevention tactics, the main hazard of plaque is
periodontal disease - also mitigated by brushing and flossing.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
D

Don Bruder

Jan 1, 1970
0
sal <[email protected]> said:
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.

You're out of luck, bub... Sorry...


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

Yeah... At mongo-huge wattages, in specially designed (*NO* shadows or
hidden nooks and crannies - Does your mouth fit that description?)
containers, where it sits for an amount of time you'd consider
absolutely ridiculous if you had to do it on a daily(or even every other
day) basis. Also, water, glass, and metal are immune to the genetic
damage (AKA "cancer-causing") effects of UV exposure. I *VERY* highly
doubt you can say that for the inside of your mouth... I imagine it'd
probably be less than a year before you sprouted your first precancerous
lesion, assuming your whole damn HEAD didn't simply explode into one
giant tumor.

Then there's the fact that there is no such LED currently being made,
and there isn't likely to be one for quite some time.

In other words, forget it. Your idea has more holes in it than a screen
door. Brush, floss, and see Dr. Drill-n-fill as needed, and leave the UV
anti-bacterial treatments to the water plants, where they actually have
a chance at working.
 
J

JANA

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't know of any UV LEDs' that work in the 254 nm region for
sterilization.

As for exposing the inside of your mouth to UV radiation that can kill
bacteria, this can pose a danger for cell damage to the gums, and to the
other tissues in the mouth. This can pose condition where by cancer cells
can be easily formed. The exposer would have to be for a determined period
of time, depending on the strength of the UV radiation, and the distance
from the emission source.

Nothing will beat good dental habits, such as proper flossing, and brushing
of the teeth to keep up with proper hygiene.

As for killing bacteria in the mouth, there are some very effective mouth
washes. They in themselves have other side effects that can be hard on the
mouth tissues and gums. They also kill friendly bacteria that is good to
have for the system's self defence.

If the plaque on the teeth is not properly removed, even though the bacteria
of its makeup is destroyed, it will eventually harden, and thus cause a
greater frequency of dental cleanings to be done. This plaque puts a coating
on the teeth that can be acid in nature, and thus cause the teeth to be
eaten away. The plaque can sometimes form below the gum line, and thus cause
gum problems, which can lead to more serious problems. Cavities below the
gum line are serious, and will usually require gum surgery, to be able to
fix the tooth.

With proper dental care, the chance of having cavities is much less, than
without. See your dentist regularly for proper cleanings, and examinations.
This way, you should be able to avoid problems.

Brush your teeth often, and brush and floss every day before going to sleep.
After your teeth are cleaned, never eat, or drink anything with substance,
other than water. Never get up in the middle of the night to have a snack,
and not re-clean your teeth. Eating within 2 hours of sleeping is unhealthy,
and will promote a greater degree of cholesterol accumulation in the
arteries. Snacking late in the evening, or during the night is very
unhealthy. When we are sleeping, our liver tends to makes more cholesterol.

When you get up in the morning, it is important to brush your teeth. The
morning accumulation of bacteria in the mouth, plays a great part in making
plaque accumulation on the teeth. The front lower teeth are most effected.

Brush your teeth right after you finish breakfast. This is actually best for
after each meal.


--

JANA
_____


Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

TIA
 
R

redbelly

Jan 1, 1970
0
sal said:
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

TIA

I'm not aware of LED's available in that wavelength, the shortest
wavelength I know about are in the 370-390 nm range.

But, I'm not sure this would be a good approach to what you want to do.
This wavelength is particularly damaging to skin. Also, what about
the bacteria located under the gums, where a uv source would not reach?

Mark
 
B

Bret Cannon

Jan 1, 1970
0
sal said:
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities.
Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

TIA

Look up the SUVOS program funded by DARPA. Its aim was to develop UV LEDs
for various biological sensing applications. As I recall 350 nm and 280 nm
were their target wavelengths because each wavelength is good for exciting a
certain class of biological molecules. I don't think that a wavelength as
short as 254 nm was thought possible, but they made a lot of progress.

Bret Cannon
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
sal said:
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

TIA

The UV needs to be short wavelengths in order to sterilize and have
enough energy to dissociate oxygen molecules into ozone. You may not be
able to get those short wavelengths from a LED. But it should be easy
to do it with mercury arc.

I remember when I was a kid, they had UV lamps inside the dryer. When
it was done drying a load of clothes, I could smell ozone when they were
taken out. The bulb was similar to a regular incandescent light bulb,
but it had a dark coating, and there was mercury and mercury vapor
inside. Somehow, after the filament heated up for awhile, the arc would
go across the mercury vapor. It might have been a bimetallic strip that
opened the filament after a time, so that there was no incandescence,
only the mercury arc.

Note, I said that there was the smell of ozone. Putting UV rays into
your mouth might create ozone, and you might have adverse health effects
from it. I know that it's not good to breathe ozone in high
concentrations, even tho it's all around us in the air pollution.
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
Don Bruder said:
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities. Using
UV light instead of going to a dentist that uses a drill.

You're out of luck, bub... Sorry...


"(UV) Lamps disinfect water for residential and commercial applications.
These lamps create light at 254 NM wavelength, this wavelength kills all
bacteria, viruses, molds, algae, and yeast in your water supply"

Yeah... At mongo-huge wattages, in specially designed (*NO* shadows or
hidden nooks and crannies - Does your mouth fit that description?)
containers, where it sits for an amount of time you'd consider
absolutely ridiculous if you had to do it on a daily(or even every other
day) basis. Also, water, glass, and metal are immune to the genetic
damage (AKA "cancer-causing") effects of UV exposure. I *VERY* highly
doubt you can say that for the inside of your mouth... I imagine it'd
probably be less than a year before you sprouted your first precancerous
lesion, assuming your whole damn HEAD didn't simply explode into one
giant tumor.

Then there's the fact that there is no such LED currently being made,
and there isn't likely to be one for quite some time.

In other words, forget it. Your idea has more holes in it than a screen
door. Brush, floss, and see Dr. Drill-n-fill as needed, and leave the UV
anti-bacterial treatments to the water plants, where they actually have
a chance at working.[/QUOTE]

I love your not so prosaic wit, Don, especially the 'screen door' bit.
Someone mentioned that germicidal bulbs are too big to fit in your
mouth, but it would be easy to make a small set of electrodes that could
produce an arc with a lot of short wave UV in it. Of course there might
be the problem of heat, and the ill effects you mention above. So it's
probably a Really Bad Idea(TM).
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
JANA said:
I don't know of any UV LEDs' that work in the 254 nm region for
sterilization.

As for exposing the inside of your mouth to UV radiation that can kill
bacteria, this can pose a danger for cell damage to the gums, and to the
other tissues in the mouth. This can pose condition where by cancer cells
can be easily formed. The exposer would have to be for a determined period
of time, depending on the strength of the UV radiation, and the distance
from the emission source.

Nothing will beat good dental habits, such as proper flossing, and brushing
of the teeth to keep up with proper hygiene.

As for killing bacteria in the mouth, there are some very effective mouth
washes. They in themselves have other side effects that can be hard on the
mouth tissues and gums. They also kill friendly bacteria that is good to
have for the system's self defence.

If the plaque on the teeth is not properly removed, even though the bacteria
of its makeup is destroyed, it will eventually harden, and thus cause a
greater frequency of dental cleanings to be done. This plaque puts a coating
on the teeth that can be acid in nature, and thus cause the teeth to be
eaten away. The plaque can sometimes form below the gum line, and thus cause
gum problems, which can lead to more serious problems. Cavities below the
gum line are serious, and will usually require gum surgery, to be able to
fix the tooth.

With proper dental care, the chance of having cavities is much less, than
without. See your dentist regularly for proper cleanings, and examinations.
This way, you should be able to avoid problems.

Brush your teeth often, and brush and floss every day before going to sleep.
After your teeth are cleaned, never eat, or drink anything with substance,
other than water. Never get up in the middle of the night to have a snack,
and not re-clean your teeth. Eating within 2 hours of sleeping is unhealthy,
and will promote a greater degree of cholesterol accumulation in the
arteries. Snacking late in the evening, or during the night is very
unhealthy. When we are sleeping, our liver tends to makes more cholesterol.

When you get up in the morning, it is important to brush your teeth. The
morning accumulation of bacteria in the mouth, plays a great part in making
plaque accumulation on the teeth. The front lower teeth are most effected.

Brush your teeth right after you finish breakfast. This is actually best for
after each meal.

Gawd! This person sounds like a mother, a dentist, a Dr., and a
toothpaste commercial all wrapped up into one! Next thing you know,
s/h/it will be telling us that it's bad to breathe the pollution, so
stop breathing! :-/
 
W

Watson A.Name - \Watt Sun, the Dark Remover\

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bret Cannon said:
Look up the SUVOS program funded by DARPA. Its aim was to develop UV LEDs
for various biological sensing applications. As I recall 350 nm and 280 nm
were their target wavelengths because each wavelength is good for exciting a
certain class of biological molecules. I don't think that a wavelength as
short as 254 nm was thought possible, but they made a lot of progress.

Bret Cannon

Here's an exerpt from one of the docs I dug up with a SUVOS search.
Some inetesting info about LEDs saving electricity, fuel, etc.




This is the html version of the file
http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/gallium/gallimyb03.pdf.
G o o g l e automatically generates html versions of documents as we
crawl the web.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:nECHu3lAQKsJ:minerals.usgs.gov/mine
rals/pubs/commodity/gallium/gallimyb03.pdf+SUVOS+program+funded+by+DARPA
&hl=en

Google is not affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible
for its content.
The U.S. Department of Energy released two studies that analyzed and
estimated energy savings of solid-state lighting (mainly
LEDs). One study estimated the energy savings potential if solid-state
lighting can achieve certain price and performance criteria.
The report considered two scenarios—one where the technology receives a
moderate national investment of $50 million per year and
an accelerated scenario based on an investment of $100 million per year.
Under the moderate investment scenario, in 2025, the energy
savings associated with solid-state lighting could total approximately
114 terawatthours (TWh) or the equivalent annual electrical
output of about 14 large powerplants. Under the accelerated investment
scenario, in 2025, the total energy savings could be about 326
TWh, representing the output of more than 40 large powerplants (Navigant
Consulting Inc., 2003b§1).
....


The second study that looked at LED use in niche applications concluded
that LED traffic signals use only 10% of the electricity
consumed by the incandescent lamps they replace, and they last much
longer, allowing for additional savings through reduced
maintenance costs. Exit signs were identified as another important niche
application, where an estimated 80% of U.S. exit signs now
use LEDs. LEDs also have made inroads into mobile applications, such as
brake and signal lights on automobiles, buses, and trucks.
To date, 41 million gallons per year of gasoline and 142 million gallons
per year of diesel fuel have been saved because of LED use on
these vehicles. (Fuel savings were calculated based on the lower
accessory load on the engine.) If all automobiles, buses, and trucks
were to convert to LED lighting, 1.4 billion gallons per year of
gasoline and 1.1 billion gallons per year of diesel fuel could be saved
(Navigant Consulting Inc., 2003a§).
 
M

Mike S.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Greetings All,

I'm looking for an ultraviolet LED that is around 254 NM Wavelength I'm
trying a different approach to killing bacteria that cause cavities.

Anything designed for disinfection will cause as much damage to the inside
of your mouth as to the germs you're trying to kill. That's the difference
between DISINFECTANTS (used on non-living objects) and ANTIBIOTICS (used
on living things). Ask your dentist to prescribe PERIDEX.
 
D

Don Klipstein

Jan 1, 1970
0
Watson A.Name - \"Watt said:
The UV needs to be short wavelengths in order to sterilize and have
enough energy to dissociate oxygen molecules into ozone. You may not be
able to get those short wavelengths from a LED. But it should be easy
to do it with mercury arc.

I remember when I was a kid, they had UV lamps inside the dryer. When
it was done drying a load of clothes, I could smell ozone when they were
taken out. The bulb was similar to a regular incandescent light bulb,
but it had a dark coating, and there was mercury and mercury vapor
inside. Somehow, after the filament heated up for awhile, the arc would
go across the mercury vapor. It might have been a bimetallic strip that
opened the filament after a time, so that there was no incandescence,
only the mercury arc.

Note, I said that there was the smell of ozone. Putting UV rays into
your mouth might create ozone, and you might have adverse health effects
from it. I know that it's not good to breathe ozone in high
concentrations, even tho it's all around us in the air pollution.

I remember those "dryer bulbs".

They have a filament and require a ballast to limit current. A 40 watt
120V incandescent will work as a ballast.
When the voltage across the filament gets much past about 12 volts, an
arc forms across the ends of the filament. The voltage across this arc is
about 11 volts. These lamps have a nominal wattage of 4 watts.

These lamps produced both the 253.7 nm main germicidal wavelength of
mercury and the ozone-forming wavelength of 184.9 nm (which is also
germicidal).
Some other germicidal low pressure mercury lamps have output of 184.9 nm
minimized to minimize ozone production.

As for how bad to breathe is the ozone from a lamp that generates ozone?
If you can smell it, the concentration is higher than that in summertime
urban smog.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])
 
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