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Looking for Schamatic for QUALITY LED light

After reading a lot of messages on here from recent weeks as well as
my own troubles with LED christmas lights, I am left with one
question. If I was to build a QUALITY 120 VAC light, and want to
provide minimal flicker, bulb protection, and maximum light output,
what would be the ideal circuit design?

I may be wrong, but it seems that I'd need a bridge rectifier and an
electrolytic capacitor in the power supply. Then comes the question
of whether there should be a resistor for each LED, and each wired
separately in parallel (which would mean a stepdown transformer), or
to use series wiring, but with this filtered power supply input.

I'm actually considering building one by hacking apart a set of white
xmas lights and rewiring them onto a board, with a reflector from an
old auto headlight surrounding it.

But putting cost aside, what is the best way to build this?

Please post a schematic to one of those free photo websites.

Thanks
 
Schematics do not just trip lightly from one's fingers -- they take
work. And work ain't free.

An off-line switcher circuit, modified to provide constant current to a
string of LEDs, would be one candidate for 'best', although not for
'cheapest'.

The biggest part of any 'best' design would be part selection -- most of
the schematics are probably OK if you don't use the cheapest of Chinese
parts.

Hey, this aint 1950. All I have to do is place the parts in a
container, connect my USB powered drill and soldering iron to my
computer, and the computer will read the schematic, etch and drill the
circuit board, and attach the parts. Then all I have to do is mount
the board on a reflector, and plug it in. My computer running
Windows98 can do this. Just dont try it with Windows7. You'll end up
with a circuit board containing 300 more parts than are needed, just
randomly mounted to the board and doing nothing. So much for the
latest Microsoft bloated operating systems.

On a serious note, I have built things from schematics. I dont mind
the work, but need something that uses available parts. The hardest
part of any project is finding parts. However this should not require
any unusual parts.

An off-line switcher circuit seems a bit excessive. Kind of follows
the MS bloat theory. Lets stick with simple but effective....

And yea I kmow anything from China is crap....
 
M

mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Tim said:
Schematics do not just trip lightly from one's fingers -- they take
work. And work ain't free.

An off-line switcher circuit, modified to provide constant current to a
string of LEDs, would be one candidate for 'best', although not for
'cheapest'.

The biggest part of any 'best' design would be part selection -- most of
the schematics are probably OK if you don't use the cheapest of Chinese
parts.

The FIRST thing to do is firm-up your requirements.
The most important issues are not specified.

Do you want to learn about technology or provide LIGHT?
You can learn most of what you need without building anything.

Assuming you want light...

Do you care what it costs?
If money is no object, go to Home Depot and buy LED lights.
If cost is an issue, go to Home Depot and buy CFL lights.

How much are you willing to invest in a few percentage points of
efficiency? Do the math.

Are we done??? Guess not...
So, you're determined to build something...

If your leds are all the same and their reverse voltage rating is at least
as high as the forward drop, you can make two strings, hook them in
reverse parallel. Put that in series with a capacitor sized for the peak
current and frequency you want/have. Voila...light.

(note that if you buy unknown leds from an unknown vendor with unknown
specs, you have no guarantee that all the lights in the batch will
have the same characteristics. 'Bout all you can count on is that
they were probably swept off the floor of the "reject devices" room
with the same broom...maybe...)

The first design has serious problems with line spikes. Anything
that increases the dV/dT of the AC can pop the string in a heartbeat.
So, don't turn off your blender.

You can mitigate this with some series resistance. You trade simplicity
and efficiency for reliability.

This light will flicker. If that is a problem for you, you're gonna have to
go to DC or higher frequency AC Drive.
White leds have a phosphor with some persistence. I've never tried to
measure the light to see how much that helps.

For DC, you already stated the plan. Split the parallel strings and use
a resistor for each string and put them in parallel (not reversed).
Use a cap and a rectifier. You fixed the flicker and made the cap or the
rectifier the casualty of line spikes. More series resistance on the
input side.

By now, you have a working light with poor efficiency, poor reliability,
poor safety...the list of "poor" goes on.

Go to eetmag.com.
Browse the pages and you'll find advertising for different kinds of
chips to power LED lights. Go to the vendor sites and get reference
designs.

You can probably build a breadboard of a pretty nice light.
But it has problems....
How are you gonna package it so that it's safe, (doesn't electrocute
your kids
or burn down your house) doesn't radiate noise that shows up on your TV or
causes your X10 devices to malfunction, fits in the place you want to
put it,
dissipates the waste heat safely?

The other problem is where are you gonna get parts? Want 10,000/month,
no problem. IF you want 1 part, even if you can get it, by the time
you add shipping and handling for three different components
from different places, you're gonna spend more than the cost
of a REAL commercial LED light.

If you want to have an interesting discussion, call up your fire insurance
carrier and explain how you're gonna fill the place with untested,
unapproved, uninspected
lights tied into the electrical grid. Ask if that affects your fire
coverage.

Lights of America has some interesting devices. Can get 'em at Walmart
or Costco for about $6 each. They're 2 Watts 110 lumens or so.
Stock varies by store, so call ahead. You'll find lots of reliability
complaints for LOA stuff, but my experience has been good.

Last year's design has 20 old-style axial leaded LEDs pointing straight up.
This year's design has a stalk in the center with 4 vertical strips of
surface mount leds along the stalk pointing sideways and 3 more on top
pointing up. Somewhat more light output, and much better light
dispersion for a typical incandescent replacement.
It also has a heat sink in the base suggesting that it's
actively managing the power.
The light output is probably as good as you're gonna get with a DIY
design. Also worth the price to take one apart and see how they do it.
I just use 'em, so don't know or care what's inside. I'll take one
apart when it quits working.

I have three of them burning 24/7 to light my house. My neighbors call
me the "mole", but I find I can easily get from my computer/tv chair to
the kitchen for coffee and the bathroom to dump coffee. Only have to
turn on the CFL if I want to read something on paper.

Bottom line, building a custom LED to learn about it can be a fun
time waster...aka hobby.
Building a custom LED lamp or two to get light is a fool's errand.
As always, YMMV.

Are we having fun yet?
 
M

mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
mike wrote:
My bad, the Old-style LOA lights
have radial leaded LEDS.
Never could keep that straight.
 
P

P E Schoen

Jan 1, 1970
0
jw wrote in message
On a serious note, I have built things from schematics. I dont mind
the work, but need something that uses available parts. The
hardest part of any project is finding parts. However this should
not require any unusual parts.
An off-line switcher circuit seems a bit excessive. Kind of
follows the MS bloat theory. Lets stick with simple but
effective....
And yea I kmow anything from China is crap....

If you read through the relevant parts of the thread on 120 VAC LED lamp
innards, you will see a number of circuits in LTSpice format that you can
build. But my final post there was to note that there is a Supertex part
that has flicker-free HF buck converter operation and PWM dimming, available
for less than a dollar at Mouser:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMv3ktgOVa6BQsvJd1Xp1ZkDzOIwGs9%2bW5M=

http://www.supertex.com/pdf/datasheets/HV9922.pdf

The data sheet pretty much gives you the schematic and parts list.

Paul
 
M

Martin Brown

Jan 1, 1970
0
The FIRST thing to do is firm-up your requirements.
The most important issues are not specified.

Do you want to learn about technology or provide LIGHT?
You can learn most of what you need without building anything.

Assuming you want light...

Do you care what it costs?
If money is no object, go to Home Depot and buy LED lights.
If cost is an issue, go to Home Depot and buy CFL lights.

How much are you willing to invest in a few percentage points of
efficiency? Do the math.

Are we done??? Guess not...
So, you're determined to build something...

If your leds are all the same and their reverse voltage rating is at least
as high as the forward drop, you can make two strings, hook them in
reverse parallel. Put that in series with a capacitor sized for the peak
current and frequency you want/have. Voila...light.

(note that if you buy unknown leds from an unknown vendor with unknown
specs, you have no guarantee that all the lights in the batch will
have the same characteristics. 'Bout all you can count on is that
they were probably swept off the floor of the "reject devices" room
with the same broom...maybe...)

The first design has serious problems with line spikes. Anything
that increases the dV/dT of the AC can pop the string in a heartbeat.
So, don't turn off your blender.

You can mitigate this with some series resistance. You trade simplicity
and efficiency for reliability.

This light will flicker. If that is a problem for you, you're gonna have to
go to DC or higher frequency AC Drive.
White leds have a phosphor with some persistence. I've never tried to
measure the light to see how much that helps.

For DC, you already stated the plan. Split the parallel strings and use
a resistor for each string and put them in parallel (not reversed).
Use a cap and a rectifier. You fixed the flicker and made the cap or the
rectifier the casualty of line spikes. More series resistance on the
input side.

By now, you have a working light with poor efficiency, poor reliability,
poor safety...the list of "poor" goes on.

Go to eetmag.com.
Browse the pages and you'll find advertising for different kinds of
chips to power LED lights. Go to the vendor sites and get reference
designs.

You can probably build a breadboard of a pretty nice light.
But it has problems....
How are you gonna package it so that it's safe, (doesn't electrocute
your kids
or burn down your house) doesn't radiate noise that shows up on your TV or
causes your X10 devices to malfunction, fits in the place you want to

X10 devices malfunction in normal operation anyway. The ancient control
protocol is too weak to stand up in a noisy environment.
put it,
dissipates the waste heat safely?

Actually even given a working schematic the design of a mains powered
LED based lamp unit to emit useful amounts of light and manage the waste
heat thermal issues during operation is something of a challenge.
The other problem is where are you gonna get parts? Want 10,000/month,
no problem. IF you want 1 part, even if you can get it, by the time
you add shipping and handling for three different components
from different places, you're gonna spend more than the cost
of a REAL commercial LED light.

If you want to have an interesting discussion, call up your fire insurance
carrier and explain how you're gonna fill the place with untested,
unapproved, uninspected
lights tied into the electrical grid. Ask if that affects your fire
coverage.

Only after the house burns down if they trace the fault to your unit.
Lights of America has some interesting devices. Can get 'em at Walmart
or Costco for about $6 each. They're 2 Watts 110 lumens or so.
Stock varies by store, so call ahead. You'll find lots of reliability
complaints for LOA stuff, but my experience has been good.

The one thing they do well on a good day is simulate a spotlight - which
is virtually impossible to do with a CFL.

Regards,
Martin Brown
 
M

mike

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
you can get 120-240 VAC LED drivers from DealExtreme,a HK company.
Fairly low cost,too.

they sell a lot of LEDs,drivers,reflectors,I used them for building my
bicycle headlight.

I have NO financial interests in the company,just a satisfied customer.

I even bought some 18650 Li-ion cells and a charger for rebuilding my
VersaPack batteries,so I could again use my B&D screwdriver.
Can you be more specific on exactly which cells you bought?
I tried to rebuild a 7.2V B&D screwdriver using cells from a laptop
battery. Open cells seem to plague this product.
At 5 amps, it takes very little internal resistance to trip the overload
and shut it down. Yes, at least part of it has to do with the age of
the cells.
Researching the subject, It appears that there exist lower capacity
18650 cells
with better ESR designed for this type of use, but I couldn't find any specs
that I could correlate to the DealExtreme cells.

I'd also be interested in how you rebuilt the VersaPacks. When I
contemplated such a project,
it wasn't obvious how to get 'em apart without damage.
 
jw wrote in message



If you read through the relevant parts of the thread on 120 VAC LED lamp
innards, you will see a number of circuits in LTSpice format that you can
build. But my final post there was to note that there is a Supertex part
that has flicker-free HF buck converter operation and PWM dimming, available
for less than a dollar at Mouser:

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...GAEpiMZZMv3ktgOVa6BQsvJd1Xp1ZkDzOIwGs9%2bW5M=

http://www.supertex.com/pdf/datasheets/HV9922.pdf

The data sheet pretty much gives you the schematic and parts list.

Paul

That's what I was looking for (the data sheet). I did read thru a
good part of that thread "120 VAC LED lamp innards". I must say that
a thread of over 100 messages and filled with a whole string of
bickering and flames is not the easiest thing to digest. I also found
a link in there to some wersite that stated that I needed to pay or be
a member to download their damn .jpg picture schematic. Of course I
know this is usenet and this is expected. amd its still 1000 times
more useful than facebook or any of that trash that seems to have
become the whole reason most people use a computer these days.

Anyhow, I have learned from all of this, and now pretty much know that
the LED light string on my christmas display contains no parts except
the actual LEDs and the wiring/sockets. It's no wonder they dont hold
up well, particularly when I'm connected to a rural line, connected to
many large horsepower motors on farm equipment along with heating high
power drawing heating devices, pumps, and more. Maybe what is really
needed is a surge supressor and filter cap on the plug end of the
lights.

It appears that LED lighting is the future of lighting. Incandescent
is being phased out, CFL has always had it's downfalls, (particularly
they wont work in unheated buildings in cold weather), not to mention
they can catch on fire and contain mercury.

The LED flashlights have really come a long way since they first
appeared on the shelves, so why not use them on 120vac. But then
again, why not just take them to DC. I actually did some major house
remodeling using a 30 LED worklignt, in a house that did not have
power. When that worklight got weak, I would plug it into my truck's
cig lighter socket to recharge. When I got home, I plugged that same
light into a 120v outlet with a wall-wart xformer. I've had that
worklight for at least 5 years now and it works great. That is the
light setup of the future, it works in a house, car, or can be used in
the wilderness when camping. It seems to me that the defect in the
current 120vac lights are a lack of converting to DC before it enters
the light string. Maybe that's where an improvement can be made.
Running them off a wall-wart seems to be the solution, and at the same
time a 12vdc auto adaptor can be used.

LED is still in it's infancy. Now it needs to grow.
 
E

Ecnerwal

Jan 1, 1970
0
After reading a lot of messages on here from recent weeks as well as
my own troubles with LED christmas lights, I am left with one
question. If I was to build a QUALITY 120 VAC light, and want to
provide minimal flicker, bulb protection, and maximum light output,
what would be the ideal circuit design?

Unless you have magic eyes, rectify and feed to one of the parts that is
designed to provide constant current to LEDs (in series, up to the
available voltage). If you can see 120hz "flicker" you have magical
eyes, and must go nuts at movies or TV or computer monitors (I'd suppose
you must do usenet on a DECWriter terminal or the like...no flicker.)

For free, try this one. Add a bigger capacitor if you need to deal with
your magic eyes.

http://www.supertex.com/pdf/datasheets/CL220x.pdf
 
Unless you have magic eyes, rectify and feed to one of the parts that is
designed to provide constant current to LEDs (in series, up to the
available voltage). If you can see 120hz "flicker" you have magical
eyes, and must go nuts at movies or TV or computer monitors (I'd suppose
you must do usenet on a DECWriter terminal or the like...no flicker.)

For free, try this one. Add a bigger capacitor if you need to deal with
your magic eyes.

http://www.supertex.com/pdf/datasheets/CL220x.pdf

To be totally honest, I dont see flicker on even the cheapest LED xmas
lights. However, I'd think that using a capacitor would make the
whole string brighter since it's continuous, and for the cost of a
cap, well worth it.

I still have a CRT tv set, and the flicker does not bother me, but the
high voltage high freq. noise does bother me at times. My computer
monitor is a LCD. I used to get sore eyes if I was on the computer
for hours, this no longer happens. I know it's because I sit closer
to the monitor than the tv.
 
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