Looking for biodegradable anti-static (ESD) bags

[James Morrison]

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to
ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd
like to use all biodegradable shipping materials. We'd like to have an
outer box for protection and then the device would be inside the box
with some protection. The electronics must be protected from static
discharges.

Of course we'd like a solution that is financially acceptable as
well--we don't have the resources to pay for $10K+ setup costs of some
exotic process.

Thanks for the input,

James.

 

[[email protected]]

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to
ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd
like to use all biodegradable shipping materials. We'd like to have an
outer box for protection and then the device would be inside the box
with some protection. The electronics must be protected from static
discharges.

Of course we'd like a solution that is financially acceptable as
well--we don't have the resources to pay for $10K+ setup costs of some
exotic process.

Thanks for the input,

James.

I dont, no. All I know its theyre easy to make, by adding conductive
impurities into paper.

However there are sound environmental reasons why plastic is preferred,
so I'd look at your requirements closely.


NT

 

[James Morrison]

However there are sound environmental reasons why plastic is
preferred,
so I'd look at your requirements closely.

Could you elaborate on this NT?

James.

 

[Joerg]

Hello James,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

I don't but maybe you could talk to some older National Semiconductor
folks. In the 80's they shipped parts and modules to us in Europe in
biodegradeable anti-static cardboard carriers. They were of the brownish
non-bleached type, probably 100% post consumer.

The nice thing: One rep gave us a pamphlet on how to throw it into one
of those square balcony pots and grow kitchen herbs in it (the legal
kind...). I tried it and it worked. After that you just threw it into
the compost and the worms took care of it. Which, BTW, also worked.
After a couple months you couldn't see a trace of it anymore. It had
decomposed itself into great potting soil.

Unfortunately they gave up on that wonderful idea.

Regards, Joerg

 

[Sjouke Burry]

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to
ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd
like to use all biodegradable shipping materials. We'd like to have an
outer box for protection and then the device would be inside the box
with some protection. The electronics must be protected from static
discharges.

Of course we'd like a solution that is financially acceptable as
well--we don't have the resources to pay for $10K+ setup costs of some
exotic process.

Thanks for the input,

James.

Carbon fibre or dust filled paperbag??

 

[James Morrison]

Hello James,

Hello Joerg,

I don't but maybe you could talk to some older National Semiconductor
folks. In the 80's they shipped parts and modules to us in Europe in
biodegradeable anti-static cardboard carriers. They were of the brownish
non-bleached type, probably 100% post consumer.

The nice thing: One rep gave us a pamphlet on how to throw it into one
of those square balcony pots and grow kitchen herbs in it (the legal
kind...). I tried it and it worked. After that you just threw it into
the compost and the worms took care of it. Which, BTW, also worked.
After a couple months you couldn't see a trace of it anymore. It had
decomposed itself into great potting soil.

Unfortunately they gave up on that wonderful idea.

Ah, progress...

James.

 

[Deefoo]

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to

ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd

And your pcb, is it biodegradable? Or otherwise easy to recycle?
Please post if you find the packing material you are looking for.

--DF

 

[James Morrison]

And your pcb, is it biodegradable? Or otherwise easy to recycle?

I sense some sarcasm in this statement. The PCB itself is clearly the
least recyclable part of the system. We will take it back at the end of
the life cycle. There are no good, financially-sound solutions that I
am aware of yet, although I do believe that there is plenty of research
into this. Taking the lead out is a small step in the right direction.

Our policy currently is to use _no shipping material_ that isn't
biodegradable. And where possible, we use enclosure materials that are
not plastic, in this case aluminium. However, there are places where
you can't use metal and something that is an insulator is required (like
devices that come close to AC lines).

We are prepared to take a small hit in margin in order to follow this.
Basically, our cost of goods sold equation has some fuzzy value that
includes the cost to the planet. Its hard to quantify but we're doing
our best. We have to leave this planet to our children!

Please post if you find the packing material you are looking for.

I will.

James.

 

[Pooh Bear]

I sense some sarcasm in this statement. The PCB itself is clearly the
least recyclable part of the system. We will take it back at the end of
the life cycle. There are no good, financially-sound solutions that I
am aware of yet, although I do believe that there is plenty of research
into this. Taking the lead out is a small step in the right direction.

Our policy currently is to use _no shipping material_ that isn't
biodegradable. And where possible, we use enclosure materials that are
not plastic, in this case aluminium. However, there are places where
you can't use metal and something that is an insulator is required (like
devices that come close to AC lines).

We are prepared to take a small hit in margin in order to follow this.
Basically, our cost of goods sold equation has some fuzzy value that
includes the cost to the planet. Its hard to quantify but we're doing
our best. We have to leave this planet to our children!

Pink Poly ESD bags *do* degrade. Albeit slowly.

I think you're fretting over nothing.

Graham

 

[James Morrison]

Pink Poly ESD bags *do* degrade. Albeit slowly.

True enough. I suppose that I should have been a bit more clear.
Everything will degrade eventually. We are looking for things that
_quickly_ degrade, where _quickly_ is relative. Ideally a few years.

I think you're fretting over nothing.

Graham, we're exploring if there is a better way to do things.
Certainly our volumes won't make much difference, but in this case it
comes down to principle. If we can show there is a better way and make
money doing it then it will hopefully inspire others to do the same. If
enough people do it then it will make a difference.

I'm in Canada, with a popluation that is less dense than most any
country in the world. And landfill space is an issue. The city of
Toronto can't figure out what to do with all the garbage it has. If
they had thought about this 20 years ago and reduced the waste in the
city they would have no problem today. There are many other cities
within 1 hour of Toronto who have made great strides and have increased
the lifetime of their landfills by decades, if not longer, through
various programs of recycling and conservation.

Obviously if everything in the landfill took 1000 years to decompose
then once the landfill is full then its done. But if it all took 5-10
years to decompose then there would be a possibility that the landfill
could be reused. Certainly I don't think it will come to that but that
would certainly be the ideal.

If this is an issue in Canda how much more so in the US, or Europe, or
Asia!

James.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
James Morrison [email protected]
Electronic Entrepreneur voice: 519.801.5081
Stratford Digital Incorporated fax: 519.393.6039
RR#1
4787 Line 42 Perth E. Twp.
Sebringville, ON N0K 1X0
Canada
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Rich Grise]

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to
ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd
like to use all biodegradable shipping materials. We'd like to have an
outer box for protection and then the device would be inside the box
with some protection. The electronics must be protected from static
discharges.

Of course we'd like a solution that is financially acceptable as
well--we don't have the resources to pay for $10K+ setup costs of some
exotic process.

Thanks for the input,

James.

You could try some of these:
http://www.google.com/search?q=biodegradable+antistatic+plastic+bags

Good Luck!
Rich

 

[[email protected]]

I sense some sarcasm in this statement. The PCB itself is clearly the
least recyclable part of the system. We will take it back at the end of
the life cycle. There are no good, financially-sound solutions that I
am aware of yet, although I do believe that there is plenty of research
into this. Taking the lead out is a small step in the right direction.

Our policy currently is to use _no shipping material_ that isn't
biodegradable. And where possible, we use enclosure materials that are
not plastic, in this case aluminium. However, there are places where
you can't use metal and something that is an insulator is required (like
devices that come close to AC lines).

We are prepared to take a small hit in margin in order to follow this.
Basically, our cost of goods sold equation has some fuzzy value that
includes the cost to the planet. Its hard to quantify but we're doing
our best. We have to leave this planet to our children!


I will.

James.

Well, it's not biodegradable, but aluminum foil is pretty easy to
recycle. At least it is most places I've been that do recycling. I've
never used it to ship products, but I've bought surplus computer boards
that came wrapped in it (luckily none had a battery). It provides
excellent static protection.

With regards to getting the lead out of electronics, I agree. I'm not
sure how big of an issue disposing of old consumer electronics really
is. Lead is pretty stable in a metallic form. But getting manufacturers
to use something else that's not as nasty has benefits. One place I
worked found out that their waste water discharge was a few parts per
million of lead above the legal rate that you could dump into the sewer
system. Their solution was to just add more tap water to the production
process. They were still dumping the same amount of lead into the
environment, it was just more dilute, which probably doesn't make much
difference in how it gets absorbed into the environment. By the way,
what they did was legal at the time they did it. I just don't think it
was very ethical.

I just hope whatever process is used to replace lead doesn't have more
problems. Look at the problems using MTBE has caused in the US.
Refiners used it as a cheaper alternative to adding ethanol to
gasoline. And as long as you burn it, it's not that big of a problem.
But when it gets into your water table ...

It's refreshing to find a company interested in the life cycle of their
product. And looking for a less obnoxious packaging material is nice
too.

You've aroused my curiosity, what are you making?

Mark

 

[[email protected]]

Could you elaborate on this NT?

James.

Sure. There is more than one issue no matter what you choose. Consider
shoping bags. Plastic bags use very much less energy than paper to
manufacture, and this matters. Also the volume and weight of material
that has to be transported and disposed of is much higher with paper.
Finally, and importantly, paper bags have higher failure rate than
plastic, and one spoiled product can wipe out the enviro benefits of
quite a large nubmer of bags.

Now to translate this to your app, paper is biodegradeable, but uses
far more energy and matieral. What would be ideal is degrading plastic,
then you get the best of both worlds. Here some shopping bags are made
of plastic that disintegrates. I'm not sure if its mixed with a
degradeable filler, or whether the plasticiser leaches quickly. Either
way it disintegrates.

You can't win, there is no perfect solution. Just gotta pick the best
one, bearing in mind that what is called green is often not.

Aluminium is very high in energy use.


NT

 

[[email protected]]

I sense some sarcasm in this statement. The PCB itself is clearly the
least recyclable part of the system. We will take it back at the end of
the life cycle. There are no good, financially-sound solutions that I
am aware of yet, although I do believe that there is plenty of research
into this. Taking the lead out is a small step in the right direction.

presumably youre using paper-phenolic PCB?


NT

 

[[email protected]]

Hello all,

Is there anyone out there who knows a manufacturer of biodegradable
anti-static bags that would be suitable to use to ship an electronic
device?

I know there are recyclable plastics that can be used. The problem with
recyclable materials is that it is only recycled if there is a local
program that can take the material and the end user takes the time to
properly discard the material. Otherwise, it just ends up in the end
user's landfill for a very long time. We are trying to avoid that.

So, does anyone know of any manufacturers that make something suitable.

Perhaps there is a better solution out there. In general, we need to
ship an electronic device (a PCB inside an aluminium enclosure) and we'd
like to use all biodegradable shipping materials. We'd like to have an
outer box for protection and then the device would be inside the box
with some protection. The electronics must be protected from static
discharges.

Of course we'd like a solution that is financially acceptable as
well--we don't have the resources to pay for $10K+ setup costs of some
exotic process.

Thanks for the input,

James.

A simple method of making paper bags antistatic is to spray them with
glue and carbon, or wipe them with a charcoal block. I didnt mention it
before bcos doing this in quantity is unlikely to be practical. However
I can think of at least come circumstances in which a quick squirt from
a hand held spray would be workable.

You dont need to use carbon, anything that conducts to some extent
would work. In extremis I imagine even diluted mud might work - not
suggesting using that, but making the point that mixed junk will
inevitably contain something conductive.

Have you looked at your waste streams for a percentage of the packaging
material?


NT

 

[Zak]

Our policy currently is to use _no shipping material_ that isn't
biodegradable.

What about antistatic caps over parts that are sensitive? It can at
least me small that way, and it is probably better to have a little
non-degrading waste than a lot of quickly degrading stuff.

The aluminium box will be a pretty good shield against static.

I'm sure you are already reducing volume. It has changed the landscape
of consumer products: most packaging contains very little air, to the
poinmt that it is often a puzzle to get the product and accessories back
into the original box.


Thomas