Long range radio control

[Abdul Ahad]

I was looking to develop a long range (3 to 5km) radio device that
will respond to simple commands like up/down/left/right, using
existing hardware already used in some other application.

Does any one have a suggestion as to what *existing* application is
available out there that can be used to do this with minimal
modifications? (I think radio control gadgets for model airoplanes and
helicopters will not have the range to do this?)

thanks
AA
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/spacesystems2.html

 

[Thomas C. Sefranek]

If it is line of sight, the RC stuff is fine!
Thru buildings etc. is not so fine.

I was looking to develop a long range (3 to 5km) radio device that
will respond to simple commands like up/down/left/right, using
existing hardware already used in some other application.

Does any one have a suggestion as to what *existing* application is
available out there that can be used to do this with minimal
modifications? (I think radio control gadgets for model airoplanes and
helicopters will not have the range to do this?)

thanks
AA
http://uk.geocities.com/aa_spaceagent/spacesystems2.html

--
*
| __O Thomas C. Sefranek [email protected]
|_-\<,_ Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
(*)/ (*) Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

 

[Abdul Ahad]

If it is line of sight, the RC stuff is fine!
Thru buildings etc. is not so fine.

Yes, it will be for mainly line of sight application. But I thought
most RC trans/ceivers for model airplanes, etc were limited in range
to 400-500 metres maximum? I am talking about using over 3,000 to
5,000 metre range or higher!

Are you able to suggest a UK site where I could buy a trans/ceiver
unit of at least 4 channels for up/down/left/right controls with this
kind of range?

cheers

 

[Mac]

Yes, it will be for mainly line of sight application. But I thought
most RC trans/ceivers for model airplanes, etc were limited in range
to 400-500 metres maximum? I am talking about using over 3,000 to
5,000 metre range or higher!

No way. High quality RC units (e.g., those for airplanes and gliders) will
work long after the airplane shrinks from view. I can't swear they will
work at 5km, but I'm sure you'll get at least 2km. Testing would be easy. In
the USA, it is illegal to use this stuff for anything besides RC. UK
probably has similar laws. Make sure what you are trying to do is legal.

Are you able to suggest a UK site where I could buy a trans/ceiver
unit of at least 4 channels for up/down/left/right controls with this
kind of range?

cheers

Futaba is one major brand. There are quite a few others. RC units come in
transmiters and receivers. The receivers are set up to drive servo motors
directly. That may or may not suit your purposes.

What are you trying to do, anyway?

Mac
--

 

[James Meyer]

I was looking to develop a long range (3 to 5km) radio device that
will respond to simple commands like up/down/left/right, using
existing hardware already used in some other application.

Does any one have a suggestion as to what *existing* application is
available out there that can be used to do this with minimal
modifications? (I think radio control gadgets for model airoplanes and
helicopters will not have the range to do this?)

thanks
AA

A cellular telephone handset with a simple audio to control interface
would allow you almost unlimited range. Plus, you get a two-way connection in
the bargain. Telemetry and control in one cheap, easy to use package.

I don't think security would be a problem either. If the line's busy,
just don't take off.

Jim

 

[Abdul Ahad]

On 22 Nov 2003 02:57:26 -0800, [email protected] (Abdul Ahad) wroth:

A cellular telephone handset with a simple audio to control interface
would allow you almost unlimited range. Plus, you get a two-way connection in
the bargain. Telemetry and control in one cheap, easy to use package.

I don't think security would be a problem either. If the line's busy,
just don't take off.

Jim

This sounds good in theory. So just how do you go about adapting a
Nokia mobile phone for 2 way telemetry uplink/downlink? I wanted to
send uplink commands to a rocket payload during flight to, say, for
example switch a video camera on/off or adjust attitude or fire a
descent stage engine, etc. Even better, is there any way of attaching
a small video camera directly to the mobile handset to transmit live
video stream via the 3G mobile network for reception down on the
ground?

....Just exploring the possibilities, here, but will investigate
legalities later.

cheers
Abdul Ahad

 

[Ian Stirling]

This sounds good in theory. So just how do you go about adapting a
Nokia mobile phone for 2 way telemetry uplink/downlink? I wanted to
send uplink commands to a rocket payload during flight to, say, for
example switch a video camera on/off or adjust attitude or fire a
descent stage engine, etc. Even better, is there any way of attaching

The mobile phone people tend to get pissed if you put the handset up too
high, it does bad things to their networks if it can see too many cell sites.

 

[James Meyer]

This sounds good in theory. So just how do you go about adapting a
Nokia mobile phone for 2 way telemetry uplink/downlink? I wanted to
send uplink commands to a rocket payload during flight to, say, for
example switch a video camera on/off or adjust attitude or fire a
descent stage engine, etc. Even better, is there any way of attaching
a small video camera directly to the mobile handset to transmit live
video stream via the 3G mobile network for reception down on the
ground?

...Just exploring the possibilities, here, but will investigate
legalities later.

cheers
Abdul Ahad

Almost any cell phone will have an earphone output and a microphone
input for adding a headset to it. That gives you the capability of two-way
communication of a band of frequencies between .3 and 3KHz. Amateur radio
operators use "slow scan" video transmissions in that bandwidth and early model
aircraft control systems sent different individual audio tones in that bandwidth
to switch on or off servos to cperate control surfaces in a "bang-bang" or
non-proportional fashion. You can even reliably stuff 300 baud ASCII data
through a voice grade bandwidth connection with a simple modem.

Jim

 

[Paul Burridge]

No way. High quality RC units (e.g., those for airplanes and gliders) will
work long after the airplane shrinks from view. I can't swear they will
work at 5km, but I'm sure you'll get at least 2km. Testing would be easy. In
the USA, it is illegal to use this stuff for anything besides RC. UK
probably has similar laws. Make sure what you are trying to do is legal.

So it's said. However, I've had terrible problems getting adequate
range with conventional RC gear and nowhere near the kind of range you
claim possible here. The legal limit in the UK is 100mW., which sounds
adequate, but isn't, IMV. The obvious solution - legalities aside - is
to 'strap-on' a couple of class C amplifying stages to bump this power
level up a bit to say half to one Watt. In fact this is something I've
had to consider myself; not for increased range so much as overcoming
other RF interference from the environment in which I use R/C (TV
studio like surroundings). And let's face it: with flying models, the
last thing you want is to lose control of the bloody thing and end up
killing someone (as recently happened in Bexley) just for the sake of
a few tenths of a Watt!

 

[Ken Maltby]

I can't believe this thread! Have none of you heard of 9/11?

While "Abdul" is probably just "fishing" for this very response,
do you really need to be so helpful?

Did you all vote for the mayor of London?

 

[Tim Auton]

I can't believe this thread! Have none of you heard of 9/11?

While "Abdul" is probably just "fishing" for this very response,
do you really need to be so helpful?

Did you all vote for the mayor of London?

The arsehole who sorted out the traffic and public transport? I didn't
bother to vote as it was obvious he would win, but had it been closer
I would have. Anyway, what has Ken Livingstone got to do with the
price of fish?


Tim

 

[James Meyer]

The mobile phone people tend to get pissed if you put the handset up too
high, it does bad things to their networks if it can see too many cell sites.

So I can't use my handset while I'm airborn and piloting my own
aircraft?

Jim

 

[James Meyer]

I can't believe this thread! Have none of you heard of 9/11?

While "Abdul" is probably just "fishing" for this very response,
do you really need to be so helpful?

Did you all vote for the mayor of London?

You're quite right. I think we ought to track down and summarily
terminate with exterme prejudice anyone who posts messages on this forum. I
think this should continue that action until there are no more posts whatsoever
here.

I know that I'd feel a lot more secure if this were done.

Jim

 

[Ian Stirling]

So I can't use my handset while I'm airborn and piloting my own
aircraft?

Not in the UK at least, I believe I don't know exactly what legislation they
rely on.

 

[Ken Maltby]

You're quite right. I think we ought to track down and summarily
terminate with exterme prejudice anyone who posts messages on this forum. I
think this should continue that action until there are no more posts whatsoever
here.

I know that I'd feel a lot more secure if this were done.

Jim

And just how would you feel if you were to read
that the Tower of London was blown up by a
cell phone controlled aircraft, someday?

 

[Ken Maltby]

The arsehole who sorted out the traffic and public transport? I didn't
bother to vote as it was obvious he would win, but had it been closer
I would have. Anyway, what has Ken Livingstone got to do with the
price of fish?


Tim

I'm just going by the coverage of his speeches during
President Bush's visit.

 

[Tim Auton]

I'm just going by the coverage of his speeches during
President Bush's visit.

I've not seen them but knowing "Red Ken" Livingstone they would have
been distinctly anti-war and anti-spending-£7m-on-protecting-Bush. He
was speaking at anti-war protests even before (more) troops even went
to Iraq so I can guess the content of his speeches.

He's an old-school left-winger. He was elected as a "**** you" to
Thatcher (who eliminated London's right to a degree of self-rule for
political reasons) and the Labour party (who refused to allow
Livingstone onto the shortlist for official Labour candidate when they
reintroduced that right). He was the "mayor" back in the 80s
(different title at the time, but similar principle) and Londoners
were monumentally pissed off that their degree of self-government was
reduced. They were also monumentally pissed off at Blair's New Labour
for refusing to allow him the chance to become their official
candidate. The result was that he left the party, stood as an
independent and took a landslide victory. Democracy in action, despite
the will of politicians. I don't live in London any more, though I did
for the first couple of years of his reign. He made a genuine
difference, a good difference. I wouldn't give him control of the
economy but a left-wing approach to transport (more busses, fewer cars
- with carrot and stick in equal measure) has been a triumph. There is
much more that he has done as mayor than that, but I can't be arsed to
write a full biography.


Tim

 

[Mac]

So it's said. However, I've had terrible problems getting adequate
range with conventional RC gear and nowhere near the kind of range you
claim possible here. The legal limit in the UK is 100mW., which sounds
adequate, but isn't, IMV. The obvious solution - legalities aside - is
to 'strap-on' a couple of class C amplifying stages to bump this power
level up a bit to say half to one Watt. In fact this is something I've
had to consider myself; not for increased range so much as overcoming
other RF interference from the environment in which I use R/C (TV
studio like surroundings). And let's face it: with flying models, the
last thing you want is to lose control of the bloody thing and end up
killing someone (as recently happened in Bexley) just for the sake of
a few tenths of a Watt!

I certainly agree that the last thing you want is to lose control of a
flyer!

Hmm. I'm in the US, not the UK. But I've seen guys fly very expensive RC
gliders at least half a mile away. Also, I know there are people who launch
very large RC gliders and then follow them with jeeps and such. I imagine
that they must be at least two miles away at times. A mile is something
like 1100m, for those of you who are accustomed to sane units of measure.
(Do they still use miles and yards on the road signs in the UK?)

Also, I don't know what the power limit is in the US, but I do know that
the band isn't licensed for anything but RC, so interference (in theory)
shouldn't be a big problem. Although it sounds like you are in a noisy
environment.

Mac
--

 

[James Meyer]

And just how would you feel if you were to read
that the Tower of London was blown up by a
cell phone controlled aircraft, someday?

Only slightly less elated than I would be if I heard that the Eiffel
tower had fallen over after being hit by a cell phone controlled Citroen with
Jerry Lewis tied up in the trunk... er.. boot?

Jim

 

[Robert Monsen]

sites.

So I can't use my handset while I'm airborn and piloting my own
aircraft?

Jim

No, its illegal. You'll get fined if you get caught. However, I'm sure
the'll waive the fine for emergency use. I've heard of more than one pilot
getting out of a pickle using a cell phone.

Regards,
Bob Monsen