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Logic equivalent in electronic

L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

thank you

ken
 
T

Tim Auton

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

If...else is trivial:

(view with fixed-width font)

if -------+-------------- then
|
| |\
| | \
+--| >O------- else
| /
|/

If you want to learn how to do logic which depends on past as well as
present input (logic with memory) do a search on "sequential logic".
You'll learn about flip-flops, clocks, counters...


Tim
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---
 
C

Chris

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

thank you

ken

Hi, Ken. There definitely is a digital equivalent. You could do worse
than starting with Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_(electronics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_machine

But try to remember that they invented computers to get away from this.
Re-inventing the wheel may be helpful to learn how the wheel is made,
but after that, just get a wheel.

Cheers
Chris
 
C

Chris

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

thank you

ken

Hi, Ken. There definitely is a digital equivalent. You could do worse
than starting with Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flip-flop_(electronics)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequential_logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_machine

But try to remember that they invented computers to get away from this.
Re-inventing the wheel may be helpful to learn how the wheel is made,
but after that, just get a wheel.

Cheers
Chris
 
L

lerameur

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?


Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

Ken
 
S

sjb

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
John said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?


Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

Ken

Hi all,

I'm a "newbie" too...at least in the advanced world of digital. But wouldn't
PLC's be what the OP is refering to when he inquires about a chip with "all
those" gates? 'Sorry if I don't sound like I know what I'm talking about,
but I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

Regards,

Scott
 
L

Leslie Sox

Jan 1, 1970
0
To see how complex this topic is and the number of devices that are
available to perform programmable logic look at this chart.

http://i.cmpnet.com/pldesignline/2006/07/compuniverse-lg.gif


Below Source http://www.bit7.com/whitepage/FPGA/fpgaone.htm

A programmable logic device (PLD, also referred to as a PAL, PLA, CPLD
or FPGA among others) is essentially a collection of general purpose
digital circuitry and interconnection resources. The design process for
a PLD results in a specification of how those resources are configured
and connected together to implement the desired circuit. Rather than
select different components and physically connect them to get the
desired circuit behavior, the engineer can add a PLD to the circuit and
implement all the required logic circuitry in the PLD with greater ease
and flexibility.

Applications

The spectrum of programmable logic parts runs from simple 16 pin PALs
suitable for replacing a few logic gates to multi-million gate,
thousand pin FPGAs capable of implementing complex data processing
functions or special purpose microprocessors.

A typical small application might be to replace several logic gates
spread among a few chips in a design with a single chip programmed to
perform the same functions. These include address decoding, glue logic
or simple signal generators. More involved circuits might include
sequence controllers, state machines etc.

Large applications may include interface control blocks (e.g. PCI bus,
DVI), arithmetic processing or other data processing. Microcontrollers
can also be included in FPGAs which, with the addition of controlling
software, can result in complete, highly specialized designs in a
single chip. FPGAs are also used to prototype microcontrollers,
microprocessors and other designs intended for implementation in ASICs.
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
John said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

GALs ( generic array logic ).

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
sjb said:
lerameur said:
John said:
I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)

W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

How do you mean "pre-made?"

Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

Ken

Hi all,

I'm a "newbie" too...at least in the advanced world of digital. But wouldn't
PLC's be what the OP is refering to when he inquires about a chip with "all
those" gates? 'Sorry if I don't sound like I know what I'm talking about,
but I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

Programmable logic controllers go a bit further still.

Graham
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
Leslie said:
To see how complex this topic is and the number of devices that are
available to perform programmable logic look at this chart.

http://i.cmpnet.com/pldesignline/2006/07/compuniverse-lg.gif

Below Source http://www.bit7.com/whitepage/FPGA/fpgaone.htm

A programmable logic device (PLD, also referred to as a PAL, PLA, CPLD
or FPGA among others) is essentially a collection of general purpose
digital circuitry and interconnection resources. The design process for
a PLD results in a specification of how those resources are configured
and connected together to implement the desired circuit. Rather than
select different components and physically connect them to get the
desired circuit behavior, the engineer can add a PLD to the circuit and
implement all the required logic circuitry in the PLD with greater ease
and flexibility.

Applications

The spectrum of programmable logic parts runs from simple 16 pin PALs

And now GALs of course. Same concept different implementation.

suitable for replacing a few logic gates to multi-million gate,
thousand pin FPGAs capable of implementing complex data processing
functions or special purpose microprocessors.

A typical small application might be to replace several logic gates
spread among a few chips in a design with a single chip programmed to
perform the same functions. These include address decoding, glue logic
or simple signal generators. More involved circuits might include
sequence controllers, state machines etc.

Large applications may include interface control blocks (e.g. PCI bus,
DVI), arithmetic processing or other data processing. Microcontrollers
can also be included in FPGAs which, with the addition of controlling
software, can result in complete, highly specialized designs in a
single chip. FPGAs are also used to prototype microcontrollers,
microprocessors and other designs intended for implementation in ASICs.

I came across an interesting use of FPGAs online which is to implement a
VGA controller. Whilst such a thing is of little interest to the PC
community anymore it continues to be of interest to those ppl designing
embedded electronics and since the usual chipsets vanshed a 'replacement'
was needed.

See also.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_Array_Logic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmable_logic_device

Graham
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
lerameur said:
John said:
On 27 Sep 2006 15:23:35 -0700, "lerameur" <[email protected]>
wrote:

HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---

I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

GALs ( generic array logic ).

Graham

The OP might want to consider getting a nice FPGA board with get
started using VHDL or Verilog. I suspect from the OP's comments and
replies that this is the probable direction being pointed out.

Jon
 
S

sjb

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jon,

When you say a "nice FPGA board," what would you suggest? Is there a
typical, low cost trainer available? Also, is there a specific VHDL that one
would use?

Scott

Jonathan Kirwan said:
lerameur said:
John Fields wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 15:23:35 -0700, "lerameur" <[email protected]>
wrote:

HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---

I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

---
How do you mean "pre-made?"

Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

GALs ( generic array logic ).

Graham

The OP might want to consider getting a nice FPGA board with get
started using VHDL or Verilog. I suspect from the OP's comments and
replies that this is the probable direction being pointed out.

Jon
 
S

sjb

Jan 1, 1970
0
Leslie Sox said:
To see how complex this topic is and the number of devices that are
available to perform programmable logic look at this chart.

http://i.cmpnet.com/pldesignline/2006/07/compuniverse-lg.gif


Below Source http://www.bit7.com/whitepage/FPGA/fpgaone.htm

A programmable logic device (PLD, also referred to as a PAL, PLA, CPLD
or FPGA among others) is essentially a collection of general purpose
digital circuitry and interconnection resources. The design process for
a PLD results in a specification of how those resources are configured
and connected together to implement the desired circuit. Rather than
select different components and physically connect them to get the
desired circuit behavior, the engineer can add a PLD to the circuit and
implement all the required logic circuitry in the PLD with greater ease
and flexibility.

Applications

The spectrum of programmable logic parts runs from simple 16 pin PALs
suitable for replacing a few logic gates to multi-million gate,
thousand pin FPGAs capable of implementing complex data processing
functions or special purpose microprocessors.

A typical small application might be to replace several logic gates
spread among a few chips in a design with a single chip programmed to
perform the same functions. These include address decoding, glue logic
or simple signal generators. More involved circuits might include
sequence controllers, state machines etc.

Large applications may include interface control blocks (e.g. PCI bus,
DVI), arithmetic processing or other data processing. Microcontrollers
can also be included in FPGAs which, with the addition of controlling
software, can result in complete, highly specialized designs in a
single chip. FPGAs are also used to prototype microcontrollers,
microprocessors and other designs intended for implementation in ASICs.

Leslie,

Thanks for the link. Wow! Pretty big picture for devices. I'm reviewing
(auditing) my digital stuff right now, and hopefully moving on to FPGA's,
etc... That site has been helpful in my understanding of the bigger picture.

Scott
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---
I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?


Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

---
In the example above, you probably already know that an inverter can
be made from a NAND by connecting its inputs together, so if you
used all NANDs to construct the circuit (which is called a '2 to 1
multiplexer') it would look like this:


W>--+------------A
| NAND Y--+
X>--|------------B |
| |
+---A +--A
| NAND Y--+ NAND Y--->O
+---B | +--B
| |
+--A |
AND Y--+
Y>---------------B

There are several chips available which contain four dual-input NAND
gates, in both bipolar and CMOS construction and in the 74XX and
4000 families of logic devices.

A good site to peruse would be:

http://www.ti.com/

and data sheets to download would be:

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/sn74ls00.pdf

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd74hc00.pdf

http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/cd4011a.pdf

As others have mentioned there are also available chips designed as
arrays of uncommitted logic gates which can be programmed to yield
pretty much any logical function(s) you could want, but I noticed
that no one mentioned a Programmable Read Only Memory, in any of its
various flavors. Google "PROM" or "EPROM" and also the acronyms
earlier presented for some interesting reading. (If you like logic
:))
 
E

Eeyore

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
I noticed that no one mentioned a Programmable Read Only Memory,
in any of its various flavors.

It's covered in one of the wikipedia links I posted.


Graham
 
J

Jonathan Kirwan

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jonathan Kirwan said:
lerameur wrote:

John Fields wrote:
On 27 Sep 2006 15:23:35 -0700, "lerameur" <[email protected]>
wrote:

HI,

I am trying to find if there is an equivalent in electronic (most
probably digital) for some common programming language.
What would be the equivalent of 'if - then' , 'else' etc...

---
In order to implement the statement: "If 'W', then 'O' = 'X', else
'O' = 'Y' you could do this: (view in Courier)


W>-----+-------A
| NAND Y--+
X>-----|-------B |
| +--A
[INV] NAND Y--->O
| +--B
+-------A |
NAND Y--+
Y>-------------B

---

I am builing a digial circuits with inverters , Nand gates etc.. but
would like to implement more complex decision.
I did not find anything on google, does anybody know about these
pre-made circuitry?

---
How do you mean "pre-made?"

Thanks a lot, no I have something to start with .
I just meant by pre-made that maybe there is a chip that would include
al those NAND and inverters.

GALs ( generic array logic ).

Graham

The OP might want to consider getting a nice FPGA board with get
started using VHDL or Verilog. I suspect from the OP's comments and
replies that this is the probable direction being pointed out.

When you say a "nice FPGA board," what would you suggest? Is there a
typical, low cost trainer available? Also, is there a specific VHDL that one
would use?

Actually, there are a lot of such excellent options, I would leave
that up to the OP. But I purchased a small board from Xilinx as my
first case, the XESS proto board. It included an XC4010XL. I
definitely paid less than $100 for it, but I don't remember the exact
amount now. Because I've put more time into using Xilinx parts and
didn't run up against problems, that's the way I'd go for another
board or my first board, if I did it again. But I am also impressed
by BurchED in Australia and I'd have no problem buying their products.

I used the software that Xilinx provided. It was just before their
web based tools, so I got a full functioning toolkit without any need
of web access to use. Not sure what those circumstances would be now.
Nor do I know much about what is considered the better VHDL to learn
from and about. I would like to hear opinions about that.

Speaking of which, I prefer VHDL over verilog. I've learned some of
both and at my stage of learning and with my software background, VHDL
is a clear winner in terms of readability for me and I'm not aware of
there being a downside to it.

Jon
 
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