Log-Periodic Antenna Design

[Rich Grise]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Or, does anyone have a UHF-TV log-periodic design that they'd share?

Thanks,
Rich

 

[David L. Jones]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

Are you seriously THAT hard up for cash? :->

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Or, does anyone have a UHF-TV log-periodic design that they'd share?

Try this - go to your local hardware or whatever store that sells a
suitable log-periodic antenna with camera and tape measure in hand.
Record it all and then go home and duplicate. Or easier still, buy it,
take home, duplicate, then return for a refund.

Dave.

 

[Carl Ijames]

It's not log periodic but it looks cheap to toss together and they claim
great performance: http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/index.htm

 

[David G. Nagel]

Are you seriously THAT hard up for cash? :->


Try this - go to your local hardware or whatever store that sells a
suitable log-periodic antenna with camera and tape measure in hand.
Record it all and then go home and duplicate. Or easier still, buy it,
take home, duplicate, then return for a refund.

Dave.

You don't really need a new antenna. If your current antenna is working
such that you get a good picture then it should work as a digital tv
antenna.

Another Dave

 

[Jim Lux]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

Interlibrary loan is your answer. Your library may not have it, but
someone else's does.

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Looking for a cookbook design, or the theory to do it yourself?

 

[TheM]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Or, does anyone have a UHF-TV log-periodic design that they'd share?

Thanks,
Rich

Upisi najnizju radnu frekvenciju : enter lowest frequency
Upisi najvisju radnu frekvenciju : enter highest frequency

Duzina antene: length of antena
Broj elemenata: number of elements

Pritisni taster za proracun antene: press a key to calculate antenna

Duzina 1. elem. length of first element

Pritisni taster za nastavak Press any key to continue

Duzina zavrsnog kratkospojenog odsecka: length of final shorted section
Upisi precnik dipola: enter diameter of the dipole

Upisi ulaznu otpornost (ohm): Entry resistance (weird in original)

Impedanca napojnog voda: feeder impedance (not sure what this is)

Upisi precnik napojnih provodnika: diameter of feeding leeds (my guess these are two bars that hold elements)

razmak izmedju napojnih provodnika: distance between feeder leeds (and distance between two bard holding elements)

You owe me a beer. BTW, its Croatian or Serbian. I kind of understand some 90%.

M

 

[Rich Grise]

Before you get too far, be sure you know what you need. This is based on
post 2/09 channel assignments. You will need to cover either a) CH2 - CH51
b)CH7 - CH51
c) CH14 - CH51

This won't do at all! Two of my favorite stations are ch. 56 & ch. 58.
=:-O

I've got 2-13 covered by my external VHF folded dipole. (It's an RV).

Are the channel frequencies going to be all changed around? I suppose
I should email those two stations. I don't know much about DTV, other
than I have to buy a damn box and I need a "better" antenna.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

Most of the wideband TV antennas I've seen, seem to be log-periodic in the
VHF range, but to use a reflector and a bunch of auxiliary elements (which
don't appear to stick to the L-P taper schedule) for the UHF.

You might want to consider a different approach - have you seen this one?

http://www.digitalhome.ca/ota/superantenna/index.htm

Thanks, but that thing's HUGE! I was thinking something more along the
lines of 1' square. (or a 1' cube)

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Rich Grise]

You don't really need a new antenna. If your current antenna is working
such that you get a good picture then it should work as a digital tv
antenna.

I've heard that there's no "signal strength" meter or anything - it's
either there, or not. With my analog, I can zero in on the proper tuning
(I just futz around with the clip lead until it's "good enough") so
I need something I don't have to screw around with.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[David L. Jones]

I've heard that there's no "signal strength" meter or anything

Most digital STB's have a "signal strength" indicator on screen for
each channel.

it's either there, or not.

That's true of the displayed picture, but not the signal.
Poor (or even too much) signal strength can lead to "drop outs" or
"freezing" of the video image.

Dave.

 

[David L. Jones]

This won't do at all! Two of my favorite stations are ch. 56 & ch. 58.
=:-O

I've got 2-13 covered by my external VHF folded dipole. (It's an RV).

Are the channel frequencies going to be all changed around?

Yes.
Channels will vary depending upon your country and location. You
should have some sort of official digital TV website for your country
that lists and explains all this stuff.
Australia for instance is:
http://www.dba.org.au/
(server down?)

Dave.

 

[mpm]

Before you get too far, be sure you know what you need. This is based on
post 2/09 channel assignments. You will need to cover either
a) CH2 - CH51
b)CH7 - CH51
c) CH14 - CH51

Tam- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I agree. How much can a coat hanger cost?
If you are really rubbing pennies together, I would ditch the log-
periodic approach and go with something simpler, like a monopole or
folded unipole antenna. (All you need is wire.)

I just want to mention (again) here that: Hopefully, we'll be able to
knock out Ch-5 and Ch-6 from this antenna scenario very soon (and move
them to the FM Band, as the FCC is presently considering. I'm a huge
proponent of this possibility!

I will try to find the Comments link at the FCC web site so those of
you who agree can chime in....

This idea has been floated before, of course. This time it seems to
have "legs".
I don't know how much you can read into it, but... the FCC has yet to
explain how Non-Commercial Educational (NCE) vertical only stations
can obtain authorization for horiz/vertical operation once this DTV
transition occurs - which is now less than 90 days away.

There are many pending Construction Permits (CP's) and NCE facilities
that proposed Vertical-Only operation in order to protect local ANALOG
TV-6 stations. These new NCE facilities will undoubtedly delay
construction until a decision is made how to obtain dual polarization
licensing. (Due to increased transmitter power requirements and/or RF
Safety exposure issues, tower height requirements, etc..)

To date, the FCC has yet to adopt ANY relaxed TV-6 digital protection
criteria for NCE FM stations. Instead, these stations must use the
old Analog standard - which is MUCH stricter than is necessary to
fully protect a Digital TV operation!

And of course, there are only (8) full service TV's on digital channel
6. (Which is a really, really good reason to move TV-6, and possibly
TV-5 to the FM band!! -- What a huge waste of spectrum!!) Yes,
there are some low-power DTV 6's out there (translators, boosters,
LPTV's). Not very many, and all of which are in locations where other
spectrum is, or will be, avaialble after the DTV transition...

Anyway, any NCE or CP not near a digital-6 would obviously qualify for
dual-polarization. It remains to be seen what the FCC will do about
this. Hopefully, they will grow a brain and shift this "un-used"
spectrum to alleviate the very crowded FM band.

I don't know if I should hold my breath or not.?

-mpm

 

[mpm]

I don't know if I should hold my breath or not.?

Oops. that post was directed at Rich.
My apologies for responding at the wrong thread entry point...

 

[John Smith]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

LOL ... talk about trolls! That HAS TO BE THE BEST TROLL OPENING LINE I
HAVE EVER SEEN!

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

Well, that is the second best ...

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

hmmm ....

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Or, does anyone have a UHF-TV log-periodic design that they'd share?

Thanks,
Rich

Ever heard of amplifed rabbit ears?

Regards,
JS

 

[JB]

Try a bowtie (like the one that came with sets) 5 inches in front of a piece
of hardware cloth. Most of the boxes (which are almost free after the FCC
rebate) have a signal strength bar (although with a 3-5 sec. delay)

Years ago they used to make one as a magazine rack that you could pick up
and move around.

 

[Ken S. Tucker]

Hi John.

LOL ... talk about trolls! That HAS TO BE THE BEST TROLL OPENING LINE I
HAVE EVER SEEN!


Well, that is the second best ...


hmmm ....









Ever heard of amplifed rabbit ears?

Regards,
JS

It's not a troll. I bought a fair good UHF-VHF antenna,
assembled it and sat it on a saw horse in the driveway
for test, and it tested perfect for 3 channels + ch.34 .
So I set her up using a roof mount and LOST ch.34,
and no amount of rotating got it back.
(I was a pro antenna/tower installer as a kid).

Next I'm going to tape wire on 1/8" panelling and do
experiments ... ugh, I hate trial and error.
Ken

 

[Helmut Wabnig]

My current UHF antenna is a 14" Radio Shack clip lead clipped from the
center of my coax to the venetian blind. I have to hand-adjust it
for the channel, weather conditions, phase of the moon, etc. I can
do this because I can _see_ an indication of signal strength.

Well, with this new Fascist "No More Free TV" crap, I'm gonna need
a real UHF antenna. My budget is exceedingly limited, but I have
a supply of materials (GTAW filler rod, with some coppery-colored
coating, so it solders like a dream, and is as stiff as piano wire)
to build an antenna with.

But I've been searching the web for some weeks now, and I can't
seem to find any kind of formula, except there was this program
I downloaded - LPDA.EXE, which runs on DOS. Unfortunately, it's
in Russian or Polish or Uzbekistani - one of those East Yurp
languages. Here's a screen snap:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/images/LP-Prog-Output.gif

Which I went through pretty much by-guess-and-by-gosh - can
anybody read that stuff?

There are a lot of factors I don't know about, like "Tau", and
all of the specific designs on the web are flat - something is
telling me I want one of those pyramid-shaped ones, but I really
don't know the difference (between that and flat) - it's probably
something to do with bandwidth or F/B ratio or whatever.

My local library has no ARRL Antenna Book (!), and did I mention
I have a seriously limited budget?

So, how do I pursue this? It'd be nice to have a program that will
calculate the whole thing for me, but am I dreaming? If I want to
send myself to Log-Periodic School, where should I start?

Or, does anyone have a UHF-TV log-periodic design that they'd share?

Thanks,
Rich

Why don't you sell your house and move to a place next to the TV
transmitter station. You will only need a piece of wire then.
Or the bare finger.
Must be wet, of course.


w.

 

[Cecil Moore]

Are the channel frequencies going to be all changed around?

Here in the Tyler, TX area, the TV stations are continuing
their analog broadcasts on their previous channels. Their
digital signals are on different channels. When the switch-
over comes, they plan to switch their digital channels over
to their previous analog channels.

 

[Cecil Moore]

I've heard that there's no "signal strength" meter or anything - it's
either there, or not.

Some of the converter boxes have a signal strength
indication. My "Insignia" box does. It allowed me
to find a sweet spot for channel 10 DTV reception
using RS rabbit ears.

 

[Cecil Moore]

Ever heard of amplifed rabbit ears?

I bought one, a Phillips MANT310/MNT310F - didn't work
as well as the non-amplified RS one I already had.