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Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Mike, Aug 31, 2007.

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  1. Mike

    Mike Guest

  2. Bob La Londe

    Bob La Londe Guest

  3. Mike

    Mike Guest

    that's what I was thinking. heads up JR.
  4. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Is tourman next????????????!
  5. Mike

    Mike Guest

    sounds like ipod is retaining some ownership, too or they wouldn't be
    threatening lawsuit.
  6. Bob La Londe

    Bob La Londe Guest

    I thought that too, but I have been informed that sometimes do sell
    equipment. Puts a whole different spin on things if that's true.
  7. tourman

    tourman Guest

    Hah ! That will be the day. No one is shown anything about how it's
    done - ever ! All it is is returning equipment back to it's rightful
    owner in a usable format after its service suitability has been stolen
    by some unscrupulous company or individual. If alarm manufacturers
    really felt threatened by this, they likely would try but that would
    be a waste of their time and money, and they know it. Our friend in
    California who sells the "unlocker" would likely be first on their hit
    list due to the way that equipment works....

    Nice try though !

  8. Jim

    Jim Guest

    That's what Rojas thought.
  9. tourman

    tourman Guest

    Different issue !


  10. Jim

    Jim Guest

    how? you are stealing customers away from borg by violating there digital
  11. tourman

    tourman Guest

    Horseshit ! If I "steal" any clients from the Borg, it's at the
    customer choosing, and it's ONLY because they have given their clients
    lousy service, or their pricing after the "free system" contract has
    run out doesn't come down to a more reasonable level. Besides, to
    their credit, the Borg don't violate their customers "digital rights"
    by locking their boards. It's only the little guys who seem to do this
    to their customers, and I've seen every excuse in the books, from
    'locking the boards for your protection"(how stupid do they think
    customers are) all the way to simply being vicious when the customer
    decides to leave them for a better company (happened just last week
    with a medium sized company here in town). Once the client fully owns
    the board free and clear of any encumberances, the alarm company has
    NO "digital rights". They are there at the customer's invitation to
    provide ongoing service and monitoring. When the customer decides they
    are toast (considering all contractual obligations the client signed
    on for of course), the customer (board owner) has every right to ask
    them to leave after reasonable notice. And they have NO right to go
    leaving an inoperative board in their wake ! (they can remove any and
    all proprietary information such as dialer numbers and account codes
    as they see fit) if they feel this "belongs" to them. But to disable
    the hardware from further use is nothing short of a criminal act !!

    Leave it alone, you can't win this're dead wrong !

  12. Doug

    Doug Guest

    How do you determine who the rightful owner is? The one with the $25 cheque
    in their hand or do you use some other method?

    You may think you are helping the legitimate owner, but in the absence of
    any means of verification, its also possible that you could be aiding an
    unscrupulous person in the theft of property.


  13. tourman

    tourman Guest

    Doug, I know yours is a legitimate question and not one designed to
    start an argument, so I can tell you the controls I put in place. I'm
    sure Jim Rojas uses the same.

    The vast majority of locked boards come to me during takeovers. The
    client has bought the house and the panel is part of the transaction,
    and ownership is usually clearly marked in the real estate advertising
    of the home as going with the home. When the previous homeowner
    cancels monitoring, it is his responsibility to finalize things with
    his alarmco, and I doubt that the previous company would leave
    anything valuable in place that didn't belong to the homeowner in. If
    they do abandon it however, legally it goes with the home with the
    transfer whether anything is owed on it or not, and it's the
    responsibility of the previous company to chase the previous client
    for monies owed. I come in as a third party to the contract, and as
    long as I can verify that I have made a best effort to show that I
    have tried to determine the right course of action, I cannot be held
    liable in any way. However, I can usually further verify things a bit
    further when I determine who the last company was that was monitoring
    it, since most of the companies up here don't lease equipment (other
    than Brinks and AlarmFarce) (I only takeover DSC and Paradox
    equipment, so it doesn't apply in these two cases anyway). In a couple
    of cases where it WAS clear the client had leased equipment (decals on
    the can), I took the system out fully and boxed it up for the owner
    company to come get it (saving him labour, and me the possibility he
    would sabatoge the client's wiring ). In both cases, the previous
    company didn't even bother to come get it (in one case even where I
    knew the alarmco personally, and told them about it)

    The other source of locked boards is from some of the large monitoring
    centres in Eastern Canada. My biggest customer is one I have come to
    know personally, so I take his word he is not defrauding anyone (and
    I'm not helping him do so). His experience is totally the traditional
    one where the clients leave because the previous client won't lower
    the rate after the panel is paid for, and locks the board to spite the
    next company. Since this situation is totally out of my control, this
    is the point of greatest risk. But I know him to be an honourable

    There is no absolute, perfect answer to your question, nor any real
    world guarantee that it can't happen. But I do make a best effort to
    check that point. But most companies make no effort to salvage
    equipment they own and if the truth be known, depend upon the honesty
    and good will of the client to honour their commitments to them. And
    most do. I only wish that some of the alarmcos did the same and didn't
    abuse the hardware locking feature in alarm boards.

  14. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Just so you know ..... that wasn't me who posted that.

    Although I do think that anyone who unlocks panels without actually
    knowing if the owner is screwing the alarm company, is an unsavory and
    underhanded thing to do. I just write is off as .... there are
    scumbags in every industry ..... who will do things that are
    disreputable and unconsiderate and possibly distructive to other good
    company or to end users.

    And the other side of the issue is ....of course ..... that in some
    cases deprograming may just balance the scale by defeating the bad
    dealers who lock people into using their services or causing added
    expense to legitimately get away from them.

    In your case I think that in your myopic quest to get back at the
    large companys in your area, that do this, you think that the number
    of end users who send you panels that are trying to get out of
    ligitimate agreements is insignificant and besides you don't think
    that ANYONE who has a term agreement should be allowed to have it ....
    legal or not, anyway ..... so you just deprogram them without
    considering whether you're helping someone to get away from paying
    what they legitimately owe to an alarm company ... or not.

    Do I have that right?
  15. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Would you get it right please

    Resistance is ..... FUTILE
  16. Jim

    Jim Guest

    that's what JR thought. once ADT sees what Brinks did to him can you be far
    behind. I know you guys thought you were in the right but can you afford to
    fight the good fight with a company with unliminted resouces? and besides
    why would you even take the chance just to help out some cheapskate
    potentially convert someone else's property for a measley $25!. best to
    wake up and smell the coffee.
  17. tourman

    tourman Guest

    And the other side of the issue is ....of course ..... that in some
    RHC: That is the main idea of this whole unlocking thing, and the only
    reason I do it ! That's the reason I got started and the only reason I
    continue !
    RHC: No, as usual ! I don't know how you could ever conclude that I
    have something against large companies in general. If I felt that way,
    I certainly wouldn't use the services of a big company to do both my
    monitoring AND my billing, which I do. They are an exceptional
    company, and I trust them fully even though they too suffer from the
    occasional bout of "institutionalized corporate stupidity". If I
    didn't, I would take it to another independant monitoring station in
    the area who chases accounts all the time and even offers a much lower
    price for monitoring services. But the services of the "big company"
    in this case, is much better all around. But then again, you like to
    read your own meaning into things, so I'm not surprised. The Borg now,
    on the other hand, deserve all the criticism they get, and it's
    legitimate at least in our area.

    As I have said many times, NONE of the big companies lock their
    boards. It's only the small and some of the medium dealers in this
    area that do so !! I have also said many times, long term contracts
    have their place, and I insist clients honour their commitments fully
    before I have anything to do with them. What I don't tell them though
    is they are pretty damn stupid to be willing to sign a long term
    contract for monitoring services if they already own the equipment...

    But you go ahead and believe what you want. Each time you post, I
    realize how entrenched you are in your thinking, and your opinion on
    things that you do know what you are talking about, becomes of even
    less interest to me. In fact I have to wonder why I even respond to
    your posts other than to correct your obvious errors.
  18. tourman

    tourman Guest

    RHC: You either don't read well, or choose to see things your own way.
    ADT would never have a beef with me because of unlocking boards,
    because THEY NEVER LOCK BOARDS.....hello. Customers coming to me (and
    there are lots) come of their own free will and unencumbered by a long
    term contract. They are not stupid enough to get themselves in trouble
    with the Borg over their alarm system. I always suggest they check
    with ADT when it is unclear to find out what their commitments are. It
    would be stupid on their part not to do so...

    BTW, it's $20 unit one and $15 for a bulk order of more than nine at a
    time. Compare that to the Unlocker at $200 bucks up front, and $30 per

  19. Jiminex is (as usual) totally FOS. Bob isn't stealing anything.
    It's these crooked alarm companies who steal their customers'
    equipment (in law it's called unlawful conversion) by locking the
    customer out even after he has paid for the system. Jiminex is one
    of the crooked alarm dealers who engage in this despicable practice.
    That is why he continuously attacks those who try to help his victims
    (err, customers).


    Robert L Bass

    Bass Home Electronics
    4883 Fallcrest Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34233
  20. Mark

    Mark Guest

    if you have an unlock business as stated then you're unlocking SOMEBODYS
    board. May not be adt then again may be.
    again why potentially be accessory to illegally convert someone else's
    property for a whopping $15? and take the chance at being sued by a
    company with deep pockets like is happening to others currently. hellooo
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