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Litz wire

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Tim Williams, Feb 19, 2010.

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  1. pimpom

    pimpom Guest

    One reason for using multi-strand wire even at mains frequency is
    that it utilizes winding space more efficiently than a single
    wire of the same cross-sectional area. Another reason is that
    multi-strand is easier to handle because of its greater
    flexibility. I've experienced both effects in practice.

    I can't speak authoritatively about the use of simple-bundled
    wire in SMPS transformers, but my guess is that it's a compromise
    of cost, availability and effectiveness. Individually insulated
    strands bundled in parallel should exhibit less skin effect than
    a large single wire, though perhaps not as effectively as
    specially braided true Litz wire. And at least some manufacturers
    are probably using it without investigating the effectiveness.
     

  2. Nice work there. Spot on.

    I wish the individual strand currents in these groups were all
    equalized. As it stands there are a bunch of dolts claiming to be on the
    ball, but obviously a bit kinked. You seem not to number among them most
    times I ever noted.
     
  3. It is indeed ideal, but not absolutely required. If you bundle does
    not conform to the pristine definition, it does not preclude it from
    exhibiting the effect, nor does it preclude you from calling it Litz
    wire.
     
  4. Bullshit, ya fuckin' retard.
     
  5. You're a goddamned retard, Larkin.
     
  6. Yes. Depending on the gauge, woven will perform better, but ANY
    configuration that splits up the current flow into smaller diameter runs
    is going to yield some litz effect and will definitely be better than a
    single solid strand of equivalent gauge for both transformer operational
    efficiency, as well as current handling capacity.
    I obtained huge improvements, and the use of pro grade "real" litz
    would have only improved it a slight bit more.
     

  7. Please tell this to the Larkin retard that attacked me after your last
    post.
     
  8. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Please reread my last response to you, 2-20 7:33am that was a
    rebuttal (attack) on your 2-20 12:06am post.
    I see someone used the term woven, maybe a better term than braided?
    Mike
     
  9. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Can you quantify that? What frequency? What size wire? How many in the
    bundle?
    What was the original single wire design size? And what do you mean by huge
    improvements?
    Is this a Q measurement or a reduction of heat.
    Mike
     
  10. amdx

    amdx Guest

    Stop being nice to me!
    Mike :)
     
  11. Tells me that John is full of shit, and that it was an agreement. Sure,
    woven is required to be called true litz and be sold as such, but all the
    configurations yield the effect, and as you perfectly stated, there is
    good better and best.

    Then, there is retarded, like Larkin.

    I do not need to re-read anything.
     
  12. When one is dealing with a five turn primary and makes fifty different
    transformers, all classed over time for their operational characteristics
    in the same front end, one eventually compiles huge data sets of said
    characteristics.

    A single, solid 18 ga primary was far less efficient than the final
    litz wire I ended up using. As I configured each ga and strand choice, I
    noted the gains and arrived at the optimal ga for the frequency I was
    running at. It matches the ga in a table mentioned by a respondent in
    this thread, though I was at a slightly larger ga. Imagine that. I
    probably could have made it run even better if I had continued into
    testing a few yet smaller strand choices.

    Regardless, the unit went from dropping out at just below 6 volts, which
    would not meet the spec, to running all the way down to below 3 volts.
    The designed source is a 9 volt battery.

    It also made the choke on the driver FET operate far better. It was 5
    turns on a core not much bigger than a quarter inch in diameter. It took
    testing of several core types and sizes as well as turns count and wire
    choices.

    Yes, optimally, A Litz configuration has to have the strands arranged
    so that they do not remain in the center of the bundle, BUT the
    difference is not that great, especially on miniature transformers meant
    for low power switchers and the like. The fact that a solid core is no
    longer being used means the effect WILL occur, even if a given strand
    never makes it out to the edge of the bundle.
     
  13. Look at the chronology of the replies.

    Since you sucked up to Johnny's horseshit, you really still possess
    many of their flaws. You'd be best to jump off their retarded little
    bandwagon.
     
  14. amdx

    amdx Guest

    What frequency? What size wire? How many in the
    bundle?
    Mike
     
  15. amdx

    amdx Guest

    I feel better now.
    Thanks, Mike
     
  16. We ran at about 57kHz, and found that to be an optimal frequency for
    the cores we were using and characteristics of the switching circuit
    design we were using.

    It ended up being the equivalent for 18 or 20 gauge, and was using both
    36 and 43 gauge. I think I ended up using the 36, since I mentioned
    using a few gauges larger size than the table described for that
    frequency. I cannot remember the strand count, and do not feel like
    extrapolating it for you. I posted the formula already.
     
  17. Half a kilo at over $80 fucking dollars? You guys are fucking nuts!
     
  18. legg

    legg Guest

    Not so much words on the fly, but flies on the words, it seems.

    You could also vacuum impregnate the bundle, if it's already formed
    into position (and if you've got a really good impregnation process
    cooking).

    RL
     
  19. No, you cannot. It only works with insulated strands. Trying to come
    up with an 'insulation on the fly method is just plain stupid.
     

  20. Flat strip conductors negate skin effect in a similar manner as that of
    a Litz wire configuration. The main problem with using it as wire is the
    amount of space it takes up on a bobbin per turn. That makes it only
    practical used as a hook-up link, or inter-node connection link between
    points in a chassis.
     
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