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linear regulator crapping out

E

ehsjr

Jan 1, 1970
0
Never mind; I see that Spehro beat me to it. :) Yay, Google Groups...
Yup. And Robert Obemayer posted the schematic on
4/20. 'Course the op might need the extra nudge
from your post - he's resoundingly silent since 4/20.

Ed
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sorry; I just saw this... nobody has posted the correct answer yet, so
I'll chime in.

You'll chime in with another incorrect "answer."
Your problem is the 680 uF cap on the *output* of the
regulator, and your failures are occuring when you *unplug* your power
supply, not when you plug it in.

Nah- the problem is an inductor in the 7805 collector destabilizes the
regulator. It has nothing to do with any reverse discharge.
Basically, you don't want current flowing from the regulator's output
back to its input. That lets the smoke out. Lose the 680-uF output
cap, or install a diode across the regulator with the cathode towards
its input pin, and you should be OK.

That reverse diode is a holdover from the days of e-cap "sputtering" and
has little relevance to modern components.
-- john, KE5FX

AARL educated I see....
 
Try it, then get back to us. If I were in the habit of saving blown
parts from 15 years ago, I'd be glad to mail you a few samples.

The real world doesn't run in SPICE.

-- john, KE5FX
 
F

Fred Bloggs

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try it, then get back to us. If I were in the habit of saving blown
parts from 15 years ago, I'd be glad to mail you a few samples.

The real world doesn't run in SPICE.

You do know that the input rectifiers block substantial reverse current
flow through the regulator? When power is removed from the input, the
input capacitor will simply discharge to approximately 2x(internal
NPN)Vbc below the output at which point the output capacitor discharges
into it as well as the internal Vref and error amplifier circuitry. The
whole circuit then drifts down to zero at something like a 4-8mA rate.
You might try reading some of the earlier app notes by George Cleveland.
The idea for the reverse protection OUT/IN diode originated in a Robert
Widlar app note where he was taking care of every possible failure mode
and every possible applications abuse of the part including high
temperature, hot plug with late GND connection, and the rectifier input
filter capacitor sputtering problem. The sputtering problem was an
instantaneous input capacitor short causing high reverse current through
the regulator and permanent damage. This is categorically different from
a weak current limited discharge taking place over the order of
milliseconds. There must be literally billions of cumulative device-hour
time on existing circuits that are doing just fine without the
unnecessary reverse protection diode. As with everything else, this is
conditional. I have seen clueless application circuits where the
unregulated input is loaded by circuitry in addition to the regulator.
In this case, the reverse diode may be required, and possibly this is
what you are recalling about blowing parts.
 
You do know that the input rectifiers block substantial reverse current
flow through the regulator

Sure, but I've always been under the (entirely unjustified) impression
that the damage is done before that point.
I have seen clueless application circuits where the
unregulated input is loaded by circuitry in addition to the regulator.
In this case, the reverse diode may be required, and possibly this is
what you are recalling about blowing parts.

That's an interesting point, and not one I've ever considered. I don't
know that I'd call it cluelessness on the user's part, though... these
regulators have always been marketed on the basis of their supposed
indestructibility, and for most users (as you note) they live up to the
hype. I've certainly never seen anything in a data sheet warning
against that scenario.

It's possible that really was what was happening in my case. But, in
any event, the fix is the same: don't store a lot of electrons on the
output side of your regulator unless there's somewhere else for them to
go at turn-off time.

I apologize for the SPICE troll, by the way. I wasn't expecting such a
civil reply to it. :)

-- john, KE5FX
 
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