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Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Michael, Nov 14, 2008.

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  1. Michael

    Michael Guest

    Hi everybody.
    I got a speeding ticket. I think LIDAR measurement was affected by the
    fact that I had xenon flasher (tow truck) near me when I was zapped.
    LIDARs work at 905nm, Xenon lamps cover very wide spectrum uncluding
    IR. My question to everybody: how to present it in court so it (A)
    sounds believable and (B) sounds understandable.
    I lost clerk-magistrate hearing because police officer could not tell
    the difference between beam width and wavelength and magistrate just
    did not seem to care.
    Ideas? Opinions? Clues?
    Thank you!
    P.S.: no I do not need "don't speed" advice. We all know that most of
    the speeding tickets are written for nothing but revenue enhancement.
  2. PeterD

    PeterD Guest

    No, it wasn't.
    Can't be done.
    No one who could understand it would agree with it. Instead of
    trolling for information, learn how the system works, how the laser is
    modulated, how the laser is detected after striking the object in
    question, etc. Then you'll see how there is no way that a tow truck's
    light would affect the laser.
    I don't think I'd care either were I the judge.
    Pay the ticket. Slow down.
    Apparently you have none...
    Yea, sure... You're just pissed because you got caught.

    I like how you didn't clain in your post that you were not speeding,
    at least you are honest about that bit.
  3. linnix

    linnix Guest

    Build a scale model of the site, radar it with and without the Xenon
    First test it with video, and submit transcripts with drawings.

    Threaten (motion) the court with live demonstrations, (subpoena) with
    the police officer and the radar manufacturer as witness.

    By the way, I am not a lawyer. But I just won $500 from Walmart,
    since Sam Walton did not show up in court.
  4. Guest

    Where do people like you come from? What, are you proud that someone
    got a speeding ticket? The OP is absolutely right, the vast majority
    of all traffic enforcement tickets are to make money for the city,
    i.e. red light cameras that bill you $450 when you turn right on red
    without stopping. How could you not feel stupid for falling for it and
    cheering for city hall? Did mommy and daddy always treat you to obey
    the rules and now you can't think for yourself? ITS A SCAM.
  5. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    "proud that someone got a speeding ticket?" ????? Where could this have
    possibly come from?

    There's no point in getting a speeding ticket. Nothing is so critical that
    I need to be there about four seconds sooner. I get a kick out of watching
    the leadfoots jackrabbit away on green, while I make a nice gentle
    leisurely departure, and watch their brake lights come up about half-way
    to the stop light, while I gently coast to the light, and gently drift
    alongside him, virtually coasting to a stop. I usually give them a big
    smile and thumbs-up, just to piss'em off. >:->

    I'm proud of not throwing dollars out my tailpipe, yes. ;-)

    But about tickets - it is much, much cheaper and less inconvenient if you
    just don't bother to get the ticket in the first place.

    But I guess you kids will need a couple more decades or so in the School
    of Hard Knocks, if you're ever going to learn anything at all.

    Good Luck!
  6. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Are you proud to be an extortionist?

  7. linnix

    linnix Guest

    No, just asserting my consumer right.
    Sam's associate messed up my tire stubs with power tools.
    OK, I messed up the axle and rotor when replacing them.
    But I did not charge them for the parts, just the labors.
    Sam's manger did not listen to me either.
  8. Guest

    Its typically a 905 nanometer pulsed laser, a few nanoseconds
    wide, multiple tens of shots per second so it "tracks" you as you fly
    towards it, giving it a huge averaging time. Once the first few
    shots fires it "range gates" so it only sees its own light. Xenon
    lights up at 2-3 shots a second with 200 uSec or more long pulses,
    with only a little of its light at 905 to fit into the 905 nm
    bandpass filter in front of the detector. Ie the xenon when fired is
    steady state background to the lidar.
    Since its set up to be eyesafe the beam is expanded and thus has
    almost zero divergence. Since the spot size of the scattered light is
    small compared to the target, the collection optics are boresighted to
    the laser and have a tight limiting arpeture, thus they wont see
    much of the strobe.

    Even if you could find a sympathetic judge, you don't stand a chance
    from a engineering point of view. All this was covered in the test
    court case used to win approval of the laser method. If you were the
    judge, would you take the heat for loosing the local state entity its
    source of discretionary funds that it can spend on whatever it wants
    without legislative fiat? Pay the %$#@ tax, get on with your life.
    Next Time, In Court, I would ask the officer to prove it was in
    current calibration and traceable to a standard, That, they probably
    cannot do, and you may get off on that one.

    Photo radar went all the way to the Ohio State Supreme Court as a
    civil penalty , not a traffic offense, and was sustained. It may go
    higher. The opponents of photo radar had the Fraternal Order of
    Police and the Insurance Companies, of all groups, on their side!

    Steve Roberts.
  9. Jim Yanik

    Jim Yanik Guest

    "sloths" often cause traffic clogs;
    they are the "hairballs in the throat of traffic".

    by "speeding"(an arbitrary limit set by politics),I often pass thru lights
    on the green instead of getting stuck at every light.
    Traffic also flows faster,so more vehicles pass per hour.
    (important for overcapacity roads,like much of Orlando)
    People do get to their destinations faster,because they didn't stop for 2
    minutes at each light.

    I also manage to get myself in the open gaps -between- traffic
    clumps(caused by the sloths and clueless),a much safer position.

    Where appropriate *for traffic/roadway conditions* at that moment,I either
    travel over or under the speed limit,as I desire.
    (and no different than local police,too)

    I stop for red lights,I signal for lane changes and turns,more than many
    drivers do these days.I merge ASAP instead of being a last-minute lane
    changer.I "look ahead,think ahead,and act ahead".
    I do NOT use my cellphone while driving,ALL my attention is on driving.

    IMO,in Orlando's heavy traffic,where speeding is at all possible,it's not
    any factor in safe driving.
  10. Ben Bradley

    Ben Bradley Guest

    That looks like it's pretty well covered. I was thinking the OP
    might hire a really smart lawyer, perhaps a patent attorney, to make
    up all sorts of claims along the lines the OP was trying to make. They
    probably charge $450 per hour, and this would take maybe three or four
    hours of the attorney's time. That sounds expensive, but it could be
    worth it to the OP if he has 14 points on his driver's record and the
    speeding conviction would push him up to the 15 points where he would
    lose his license for a year.

    But if he's sure to lose the case, that's a lot of money to spend
    for nothing.
  11. linnix

    linnix Guest

    Yes, they stripped three out of four studs. Probably too lazy to hand
    thread it, just power jam it in.
    But you don't need to remove the axle nut for brake work. After
    breaking the torque wrench, I had to grind out part of the axle and
    nut with several titanium bit stems. The bits did not last more than
    a few seconds, but the stems grind out the harden nut and axle
    slowly. I eventually got it out, after ruining the drill as well.

    The axle nut is not supposed to be reused. So, the $10 nut, $10 cap
    and $3 pins are parts added to the $40 stubs. I am not including the
    axle and rotor, since a good mechanic would not have damaged them.
    But a good mechanic would not have damaged the stubs in the first
    place. A simple tire replacement ends up with axle, rotor and ball
    joint replacements.

    In the case of bad mechanic vs. bad mechanic, the defendant did not
    show up. The bad mechanic and non-lawyer plaintiff did not file the
    proof of service properly. The court ordered to reschedule the case.
    Plaintiff offered to drop the case.
    Oh yes, the defendant mailed a check a week before the court date.
  12. Guest

    Gee, all the Lidar around the SF bay area showed up during the Shrub
    years. Same with the traffic light cameras.
  13. Jasen Betts

    Jasen Betts Guest

    you need a credible expert witness, and a competent lawyer.
  14. Stop trying to weasle out of it, just pay the fine and get on with your
    life, it ain't worth it.

  15. One must wonder if "Michael" = "Peter":

  16. mpm

    mpm Guest

    In my younger days, I owned a 1970 Plymouth Barracuda (w/440 & Dana
    rear) and the wheel lug nuts on the driver's side had reversed
    threads. Poor technician was out there for 30 minutes trying to get
    the wheels off with an air impact wrench!! He finally came in and
    apologized that he just couldn't help me because he couldn't get the
    tires off....!!

    That car went through a lot of tires BTW :)

    As to the LIDAR issue, if it's worth your time, you can always contest
    the ticket.
    Here, they make if difficult by turning in into a 2, 3, or even 4-step
    process. I guess they figure if you miss enough work, they'll
    prevail. That said, the deal gets sweeter the later in the process
    you go.

    I had a U-Turn violation a couple years back and went through this
    hassle. Started out as a ~$125 infraction, then down to $50 + points
    (at a pre-trial Judge's discretion), then just a fine (again, pre-
    trial). I went all the way and won because I was able to point out
    that where I made my illegal U-Turn was actually MUCH safer than the
    first permissible point at which to make the turn (nearly a half-mile
    away). The Judge agreed!, and ordered the County engineers to
    investigate the signage! (I was lucky, I guess?)

    Still, it is my understanding if the officer does not show up in
    court, you win by default. So, I guess that's always worth a try.
    All that said, it is often the right approach to just pay the ticket.

  17. PeterD

    PeterD Guest

    Not withstanding the fact that you are *REQUIRED* to stop before
    turning right? What happened to just following the rules?
    It? What it?
    Either follow the rules or change the rules or pay the price. Easy
  18. linnix

    linnix Guest

    Objection your honor. Unsubstantiated speculation. Move to strike.
    I don't know what happened. But I am sure it was inexperienced
    technician with impact wrench, and "more power, said Jim". The Summon
    and Compliant got to their regional manager and perhaps higher. I
    hope they would review their procedures, rules, policies and
    trainings. It might save their future customers. But again, they
    might just pay it off after the fact, once in a while.
  19. T

    T Guest

    Sort of like Providence. Apparently we now have traffic worse than that
    in Boston.
  20. "Michael" <> skrev i meddelelsen

    Don't worry: Obama will pay the fine for you!
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