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li-ion battery

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by Deodiaus, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. Deodiaus

    Deodiaus Guest

    I have a Motorala c343 cellphone with a ssn3825a 3.6v battery which I
    dropped into a puddle of water and shorted. Is there any way to try to
    recover this battery? Some one said that he read an article in a pc
    magazine which suggested putting it in the freezer which might break
    the short? This did not work. How about putting it in a vat of
    nitrogen or C02?
    Some else suggested hooking it to a high voltage source. How high,
    220V? Any ideas where I can get a higher source? Fly a kite and
    access 1B V like Ben Franklin? That might just vaporize my battery,
    but might be fun. Although we don't get too many thunderstorms here.
    Before I purchase a new battery or phone, I want to try to hook up
    another Nokia BLS-2N 3.6v battery from an old phone to see if my phone
    still works. It does not have an amperage rating, but since I see the
    standard AA cells sold as an emergency battery this might just work.
    Does anyone know how the insides of these batteries are wired? E.g.
    have taken one apart?
    Both are labeled - on the LHS, and + on the RHS
    They both have 4 leads, but with different form factors of the
    batteries? Should I just hook them up the most obvious way? Should I
    test the leads with a light bulb first?
    Does anyone know of sites on the best way to design a do it yourself
    housing for the Nokia?

    Disclaimer, I have a lot of knowledge but not in practical stuff. I
    think I have a track record of destorying more than fixing things, but
    hey, that is the price of learning?
     
  2. Peter

    Peter Guest

    "Motorola" batteries being a good brand should have some protective
    circuitry inside the battery itself, as well as the charge control built
    into the phone. The normal protection is a fuse, probably arranged as a
    very narrow track on a micro pcb. Also there might be a zener diode to
    protect against over voltage. Before you try and open the battery you
    should remember that it is a LITHIUM cell, and can self-destruct
    violently if you get it wrong. It's around 30 dollars for a new battery,
    how much for new fingers?? Have a look at
    http://www.powerstream.com/li.htm and remember the laptop problem!

    Regarding trying another battery to test the phone, make sure the phone
    is really dry inside and try connecting in the 'obvious' pattern. If you
    can test the battery you can check for + and - on the contacts. Look and
    see if the phone is marked with matching symbols.
     
  3. Mij Adyaw

    Mij Adyaw Guest

    Doesn't phone insurance cover dropping the phone in the toilet?
     
  4. Tom Biasi

    Tom Biasi Guest

    There is a water sensor that changes color if the phone gets wet.
    Most companies do not honor wet phones.
     
  5. Larry

    Larry Guest

    Ahhh....be informed a Li-Ion battery shorted goes off like a roadside bomb,
    which is what the Dell/Sony-battery recall was all about. There's a
    webpage showing a Dell laptop exploding on a table at a computer conference
    in front of astonished conferees, but I don't have the URL at the moment.
    It's very impressive to see a Li-Ion battery explode......

    Larry
     
  6. Larry

    Larry Guest

    One of the fun things to do to that little geek snot at the service
    counter, when he jerks your cellphone out of your hand with that snotty
    cellphone attitude, is to say, "Ah, that's the phone that fell out of my
    pants into the loaded toilet!"

    Look on his/her face?.........................PRICELESS

    Larry
     
  7. krw

    krw Guest

    "Roadside bomb"? Explode? You are delusional. Roadside flare,
    perhaps.
     
  8. jasen

    jasen Guest

    I had a Panasonic A100 that went through the washing machine and survived.
    (I left it on the window-sill 2 days in the sun, recharged the battery and it
    worked.)
     
  9. Peter

    Peter Guest

    Don't be picky....we're trying to save the OP's fingers here!!
     
  10. Chris Lewis

    Chris Lewis Guest

    Yep I had a nokia 8310 go through the washer and dryer and survive!
     
  11. buck rojerz

    buck rojerz Guest

    Not at all. Perhaps the "road-side-bomb" analogy is a bit extreme,
    however... personal injury is a distinct possibility. Don't take our word
    for it. Go to Google and find out for yourself.

    buck
     
  12. KruSat

    KruSat Guest


    put it in sun for a day or so and then keep it under ur pillow for
    about 3 days..
    sun will convert the water within into vapor (the vapor will still be
    traped inside) while the pillow will then absorp it and also heats it
    up slowly...(use a pillow which has hygroscopic material inside it,like
    cotton)

    dont try to heat it the battery will die...
     
  13. Deodiaus

    Deodiaus Guest

    After a four days, the phone dried out, and when I connect it to the
    charger, the phone comes on. Unfortunately, the battery cannot be
    charged. Do you think it is shorted for good, or just still wet
    inside?
    What I mean by the obvious way is that there are 4 contacts on the
    Motorola c343 phone and 4 contacts on the Nokia battery (for another
    old cell phone non e911 compatible).
    BTW, the Nokia battery is good, as I tested it in the old phone.
    I connected each contact on the phone to the corresponding one on the
    battery, making sure that the + side matched the + side on the other
    one. The phone did not come on.
    Either the contacts are not firm, or the wiring has changed. Does
    anyone know if the wiring ordering is still the same in the Nokia
    BLS-2N as the Motorola ssn3825a??
    Can anyone think of another reason why this might not work?
     
  14. Deodiaus

    Deodiaus Guest

    The guy who suggested connecting it to a high voltage source was my lab
    techie.
    I did see the video of the exploding laptop, but think it is a fake.
    There is just way too much flame for a battery like that, and the crowd
    in the background just stands around watching it. With flames like
    that, I'd be running for the fire hydrant.
    I use to make home made gun powder and bottle rockets as a kid, so its
    hard to fool me.
     
  15. BillW50

    BillW50 Guest

    No, don't do it! Once the Li-Ion battery drops to a low level, Li-Ion
    battery chargers are made to not charge the battery. Because if they
    did, they can explode. It just isn't worth the risk. :(
     
  16. budgie

    budgie Guest

    That advice is actually contrary to widespread design practice. Once a cell
    goes below the safe cutoff voltage, most "intelligent" chargers actually attempt
    a low current charge which is actually safe and (unless the cell is actually
    faulty) will progressively bring the cell voltage back up to the point where
    normal charging can continue.

    The unsafe practice with Li-xx is overvoltage. Attempts to charge these cells
    (either from a normal or low voltage staring point) need to be carried out with
    a proper charger OR by someone who understands their care-and-feeding and takes
    the necessary precautions.

    The unwise practice is to leave a cell in an undervoltage condition, as
    irreversible degradation occurs.
    I'm not aware of undervoltage Li-xx cells exploding. Can you cite any
    reference(s)?
     
  17. Larry

    Larry Guest

    This is an excellent statement. Battery users got used to the Ni-Cd memory
    problems and got used to the total-discharge-them-to-prevent-memory
    scenario. When they migrated to Li-Ion, noone told them Li-Ions should be
    immediately recharged, NO MATTER WHAT THEIR CHARGE STATE...just like lead-
    acid float batteries.

    So, the cellphone users sleeping right next to their chargers, don't plug
    the phones in at night until they are nearly dead, causing premature
    battery failures that could have easily been prevented by simply plugging
    the phone in next to their beds. If you never discharge them below 80%,
    easy to do in most cellphones, Li-Ion batteries will last for years, making
    battery salesmen and manufacturers quite unhappy.

    They all seem so proud of how long they can make them run before plugging
    them in. How silly....

    Larry
     

  18. Diabetes.


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
  19. BillW50

    BillW50 Guest

    Just from this guy:

    From: "M.I.5¾" <_SPAM.co.uk>
    Newsgroups: comp.sys.laptops

    The company he works for they explode Li-Ion on purpose.
     
  20. BillW50

    BillW50 Guest

    [snip]

    I agree Larry. Although laptop Li-Ion batteries seem to act differently.
    Tons of people have learned for you leave them in the charger 24/7 (in
    the laptop under AC power), the battery is usually worthless in about 2
    years (even though you never used it). Brand doesn't matter.

    But if you leave them out of the laptop and just recharge them about
    once every 6 months, they can last 10 years or more. Some of us have
    theories why this happens. And most of us believe it is do to the fact
    that laptops usually get pretty hot and slowly destroys them.
     
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