lead free solder again

[[email protected]]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Michael

 

[ian field]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Michael

Military, medical & aerospace were the first exemptions granted - even the
brain-dead arseholes who passed this crap know how dangerous lead free
solder is!!!

 

[Joerg]

Hello Ian,

Military, medical & aerospace were the first exemptions granted - even the
brain-dead arseholes who passed this crap know how dangerous lead free
solder is!!!

Err, if the 2nd sentence under the last table in this link still holds
true Michael might have a point:
http://www.newark.com/services/rohs/exemptions.html

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Ian,


Err, if the 2nd sentence under the last table in this link still holds
true Michael might have a point:
http://www.newark.com/services/rohs/exemptions.html

Hmm... about that "some equipment used within an aircraft is within the
scope"... are they referring to the equipment used to play the
in-flight movies, or are they referring to the navigation equipment,
transponder, equipment to activate the flaps, rudder, etc.?

Michael

 

[ian field]

Hello Ian,


Err, if the 2nd sentence under the last table in this link still holds
true Michael might have a point:
http://www.newark.com/services/rohs/exemptions.html

Europe has mad politician disease!!!!!

 

[ian field]

Hmm... about that "some equipment used within an aircraft is within the
scope"... are they referring to the equipment used to play the
in-flight movies, or are they referring to the navigation equipment,
transponder, equipment to activate the flaps, rudder, etc.?

Michael

That should be a clear cut case of in flight entertainment equipment isn't
aerospace equipment.

 

[Eeyore]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Several product sectors have been exempted. Tells it all really.
http://www.pb-free.info/rohsexemptions.htm

If avionics aren't in there ( possibly covered by other legislation ) it'll be a
worry given the high levels of vibration.

Some bright spark applied for an exemption for pro-audio ( no doubt on the basis
that ppl expect the stuff to last longer than 2-5 yrs ).

Shame that the video guys weren't so well on the ball !

Graham

 

[martin griffith]

Hello Ian,


Err, if the 2nd sentence under the last table in this link still holds
true Michael might have a point:
http://www.newark.com/services/rohs/exemptions.html

Hmm, had a few beers, but, maybe we should **Insist** that

"servers, storage and storage array systems, network infrastructure
equipment for switching, signalling, transmission as well as network
management for telecommunications" must be lead free.

Why should something that just contains data be exempt

There seems to be unstated assumptions about the quality of domestic
products over industrial products and life span.

Sorry, run out of neurons, OK the idea needs some work....Just
inverting the argument can cause some "fun"




martin

 

[martin griffith]

Several product sectors have been exempted. Tells it all really.
http://www.pb-free.info/rohsexemptions.htm

If avionics aren't in there ( possibly covered by other legislation ) it'll be a
worry given the high levels of vibration.

Some bright spark applied for an exemption for pro-audio ( no doubt on the basis
that ppl expect the stuff to last longer than 2-5 yrs ).

Shame that the video guys weren't so well on the ball !

Graham

Video doesn't exist, these days, its just a DSP function, so its
covered by the server " Gottcha"


martin

 

[Eeyore]

Video doesn't exist, these days, its just a DSP function, so its
covered by the server " Gottcha"

Oh it does exist. It's just a bit different. Think eng for example. Then there's
broadcast video mixers and the like.

Graham

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Michael

Boeing too. They contracted quite a few systems out to EU suppliers on
the 787.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Michael

I am almost absolutely certain that avionics is in the exempt list.

 

[Roy L. Fuchs]

Boeing too. They contracted quite a few systems out to EU suppliers on
the 787.

Even the fucktard EU knows when not to use pure tin CRAP.

 

[Michael A. Terrell]

Hmm, had a few beers, but, maybe we should **Insist** that

"servers, storage and storage array systems, network infrastructure
equipment for switching, signalling, transmission as well as network
management for telecommunications" must be lead free.

Why should something that just contains data be exempt

There seems to be unstated assumptions about the quality of domestic
products over industrial products and life span.

Sorry, run out of neurons, OK the idea needs some work....Just
inverting the argument can cause some "fun"

martin

Because the politicians want to make sure the computers can print
their paychecks on time.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

 

[Jeff L]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

I've actually saw some tin coated boards with whiskers almost as bad as
that. There are some pics on the net with whiskers over 1 cm in length.
Also note that tin dendrite growth and tin whiskers are NOT the same thing.

 

[Barry Lennox]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

So... is Airbus required to go for lead-free solder too, for RoHS and
all that...?

Hoo-boy... if so, wouldn't want to fly on any Airbus aircraft built
after 2006, then...

Michael

The bigger problem, is that while industry sectors can get exemptions,
it's becoming very difficult to get leaded components any more. Many
vendors have simply dropped them. And we are now starting to see that
many vendors will never be making new parts in a leaded option. So
unless the aerospace manufacturers have hangers full of leaded parts,
the exemption is no use. And even if they do have good stocks, they
will be locked into 2005/06 technology.

Maybe the problem will be solved when the first Airbus full of
Euro-crats crashes as a result of tin whiskers or tin pest?

Barry Lennox

 

[Frank Bemelman]

I saw some pictures of those "tin whiskers", and I didn't know the
problem was so great.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_whiskers

Didn't know that lead was added not until the late 40's.

But if you spray finished boards with some kind of coating,
would that not prevent the growth of whiskers?

Anyway, I don't hear much complaining from large companies
so it might not be such a big deal after all. Time will
tell, of course.

 

[Eeyore]

Didn't know that lead was added not until the late 40's.

But if you spray finished boards with some kind of coating,
would that not prevent the growth of whiskers?

You want to physically restrain the tin ? It's some kind of crystal growth so I
doubt it'll be bothered by a coating. In nay case what you're suggesting is
simply another band-aid on a truly bad idea.

There's plenty more problems anyway such as fatigue of the solder joint.

Anyway, I don't hear much complaining from large companies

Haven't heard about Swatch ?

I'm sure there'll be screams of anguish eventually when the full implications
come to light.

so it might not be such a big deal after all. Time will tell, of course.

Yes it will.

Graham

 

[Frank Bemelman]

You want to physically restrain the tin ? It's some kind of crystal growth so I
doubt it'll be bothered by a coating. In nay case what you're suggesting is
simply another band-aid on a truly bad idea.

Given the diameter of the whiskers, I doubt if they develop enough
force to punch through. Strange phenomena anyway, because the whiskers
don't start everywhere, but just here and there.

There's plenty more problems anyway such as fatigue of the solder joint.



Haven't heard about Swatch ?

That's the one and only I heard off, and was mentioned here at
SED about a month ago? One case is not much. I don't hear Philips,
Sony, JVC, Samsung, HP, Canon, etc.

I'm sure there'll be screams of anguish eventually when the full implications
come to light.



Yes it will.

The list of exemptions can be widened, if need be. I can imagine
they add wrist watches to the list of exemptions, not much solder
in a wrist watch anyway, so who would care about that kind of
stuff being lead-free or not.

 

[Klaus Bahner]

The bigger problem, is that while industry sectors can get exemptions,
it's becoming very difficult to get leaded components any more. Many
vendors have simply dropped them. And we are now starting to see that
many vendors will never be making new parts in a leaded option. So
unless the aerospace manufacturers have hangers full of leaded parts,
the exemption is no use. And even if they do have good stocks, they
will be locked into 2005/06 technology.

Tin whiskers have nothing to do with lead-free or non lead-free parts.
It only depends on what kind of solder you are using.

Klaus