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Lead Acid battery models

C

Clarence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise said:
ChrisGibboGibson said:
:

[snip]

Then write and test a model of the target battery and post it.


I'm beginning to see what FB meant about you.

Gibbo

Yeah, I 'am' honest and 'direct.'

You were expecting someone to do some considerable work for you benefit free?

I killfiled Fred Blogs a long time ago.
His language was/is offensive!

How is it you manage, then, to continue to fight with somebody
who you claim you've killfiled?

Or are you simply a liar, as Fred impugns?

Thanks,
Rich

Only if someone has replied to him so that I see him.

Okay?
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's not even remotely close to reality.

Apparently, it's close enough to smoke test a ferroresonant power
supply. :)
Plus serveral other bits.
True.


Aye, I've been working on that for about 6 months!
Yeah, that's fun - baby-sitting your test setup far into the night, taking
readings every 15 minutes....

Good Luck!
Rich
 
R

Ray Anderson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Jim Thompson wrote:

[snip]

A valid charge-control battery model would be of........

What exactly do you mean by "charge-control battery model" ?

Gibbo


In a battery everything is a function of the state-of-charge,
including the effective resistance and voltage. And everything varies
depending on whether you are in charge or discharge conditions... and
the time spent in each mode.

But it wouldn't surprise me to find that such a model already exists.

...Jim Thompson

Check out the following document:
http://www.scarpaz.com/papers/Low Power/00953497.pdf
It contains a VHDL model for a discrete time charge-control battery model.

-Ray Anderson
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
ChrisGibboGibson said:
Clarence said:
:
[snip]
Then write and test a model of the target battery and post it.

I'm beginning to see what FB meant about you. Gibbo

Yeah, I 'am' honest and 'direct.'

No. You're a dickhead who doesn't stop to think.

Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? I think your very impolite!
free?

If you need a wheel do you reinvent it?

So you are as lazy as I suspected? Answering a question with a question
is not acceptable for getting respect.
I suspect you won't even understand what I'm getting at there but I'm
not going
to waste my time explaining it.

Oh, I understand, your lazy!
That maybe so. But I suspect you killfiled him for somwhat different
reasons. Perhaps because he spotted what an idiot you are.

Actually, I was concise in my reason. Your just looking for a reason to
use your entire vocabulary of four letter words, I suspect your another
potty mouth.

Read Jim Thompson's response before you say more. If you feel like
insulting him, don't!

Is English your first language? I noticed that you used "your" where you
should have used "you're" four or five times in the above post.

If English is NOT your first language, then don't worry about it. It isn't
super important. But if English IS your first language, then please use
the apostrophe where appropriate.

It makes it much easier to read your posts if you use the correct word.

Thanks!

--Mac
 
R

Ray Anderson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]
But it wouldn't surprise me to find that such a model already exists.

...Jim Thompson

Check out the following document:
http://www.scarpaz.com/papers/Low Power/00953497.pdf
It contains a VHDL model for a discrete time charge-control battery model.

-Ray Anderson


Thanks, Ray! I'll see if I can convert it to Analog ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Also see pages 260-273 in http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/pspice/appnts.pdf

This is the old Microsim Pspice appnotes book if you have it handy.
The appnote is entitled "Using Pspice to simulate the discharge behavior
of common battery types". Steve Hagemans article in EDN back in 1993 was
based on this manuscript.

-Ray Anderson

-Ray
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Jim Thompson wrote:
[snip]

But it wouldn't surprise me to find that such a model already exists.

...Jim Thompson

Check out the following document:
http://www.scarpaz.com/papers/Low Power/00953497.pdf
It contains a VHDL model for a discrete time charge-control battery model.

-Ray Anderson


Thanks, Ray! I'll see if I can convert it to Analog ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Also see pages 260-273 in http://kahuna.sdsu.edu/pspice/appnts.pdf

This is the old Microsim Pspice appnotes book if you have it handy.
The appnote is entitled "Using Pspice to simulate the discharge behavior
of common battery types". Steve Hagemans article in EDN back in 1993 was
based on this manuscript.

-Ray Anderson

-Ray

Thanks, again! My MicroSim App Notes booklet is dated 1994 and
doesn't have that article.

Actually I believe I have a copy of Hageman's paper around here
somewhere. Thanks for reminding me... I'll search for it.

...Jim Thompson
 
C

Clarence

Jan 1, 1970
0
Is English your first language? I noticed that you used "your" where you
should have used "you're" four or five times in the above post.

If English is NOT your first language, then don't worry about it. It isn't
super important. But if English IS your first language, then please use
the apostrophe where appropriate.

It makes it much easier to read your posts if you use the correct word.

If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

End of discussion.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
ChrisGibboGibson said:
Yes. As much as possible. OC voltage dependant upon charge state, internal R,
counter voltage (surface charge), inductance (yes there is some), internal self
drain etc.

Gibbo

Do not forget temperature dependence, sulphation, temperature gradient
in cell, thickness of working compounds, particle sizes of working
compounds (both important for impulse and long term "cranking" current
capability), specific gravity, etc.
 
R

Robert Baer

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clarence said:
Then write and test a model of the target battery and post it.

But the battery is already "shot" (someone hit the target), and it is
leaking (bleeding?) all over...
 
C

ChrisGibboGibson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich said:
Apparently, it's close enough to smoke test a ferroresonant power
supply. :)

"smoke test" ... I like that. :)
Yeah, that's fun - baby-sitting your test setup far into the night, taking
readings every 15 minutes....

You've been there and done it!

I feel like I haven't slept for 12 months.

Gibbo
 
C

ChrisGibboGibson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert Baer wrote:

[snip]
Do not forget temperature dependence, sulphation, temperature gradient
in cell, thickness of working compounds, particle sizes of working
compounds (both important for impulse and long term "cranking" current
capability), specific gravity, etc.

Yes. What started off relatively simply has become a monster.

For instance sulphation has 2 parts. The long term effect dependent upon
history of use and abuse, and a short term effect dependent upon state of
charge.

Internal R has 5 separate parts.

Internal self drain has 3.

And all these vary wildly between different types of consruction. ie the basic
internal R increases (with decreasing SOC) quite dramatically in lead antimony
and lead calcium wet cells. But hardly at all in lead calcium gel cells.

The whole thing is extremely complicated.

I wanted to see what other people had come up with but it seems nothing has
turned up so far.

Gibbo
 
J

John Fields

Jan 1, 1970
0
If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

End of discussion.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

End of discussion.

It could be thought to be an IQ indicator ;-)

your = possessive

you're = contraction for "you are"

...Jim Thompson
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
But the battery is already "shot" (someone hit the target), and it is
leaking (bleeding?) all over...

"There were fifty mounted cannon in the battery,
Thundering, thundering, louder than before!"

Cheers!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

End of discussion.

Promises, promises.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
"smoke test" ... I like that. :)


You've been there and done it!

I feel like I haven't slept for 12 months.
Catnaps can be surprisingly helpful. Sit back in the chair, get
comfortable, and close your eyes for a few minuts. When you drift off,
you'll generally wake up while falling from the chair. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich
 
T

Terry Given

Jan 1, 1970
0
Clarence said:
If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

End of discussion.

solipsist

Terry
 
M

Mac

Jan 1, 1970
0
If your an English teacher, thank you.
If not -- Stuff it!

That's not a polite expression. ;-)
Use determines correctness. I use it, it is correct!

That's not my understanding of how grammar works.
End of discussion.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. It's just that "your" and "you're"
are totally different. When I see "your," I think you mean "your," but as
I read on, I realize it doesn't make sense, and I have to stop, and think,
and back up and re-read. It doesn't take long, but it wouldn't take you
long to put in the apostrophe, either.

And if you assume that perhaps dozens of people may read your post, it
seems to me that it is a bit rude to do something which inconveniences
those dozens of people if it would only take you a fraction of a second to
remedy the situation.

--Mac
 
C

Clarence

Jan 1, 1970
0
I do.
That's not a polite expression. ;-)

Actually it is, I was careful not to specify what or where!
That's not my understanding of how grammar works.

Your understanding it now corrected.

I am not offended, nether you nor anyone on this NG can do that. I consider the
source!
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you. It's just that "your" and "you're"
are totally different. When I see "your," I think you mean "your," but as
I read on, I realize it doesn't make sense, and I have to stop, and think,
and back up and re-read. It doesn't take long, but it wouldn't take you
long to put in the apostrophe, either.

I will allow you to add an apostrophe IF you like, but I will not change my
use, it is correct!
And if you assume that perhaps dozens of people may read your post, it
seems to me that it is a bit rude to do something which inconveniences
those dozens of people if it would only take you a fraction of a second to
remedy the situation.
--Mac

What is rude is correcting someone else when you are not ask politely to do so.
Understanding will come in time, or not, no loss to me either way.

Your aware you were not ask, aren't you?
 
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