Connect with us

Lead Acid battery models

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by ChrisGibboGibson, Oct 17, 2004.

Scroll to continue with content
  1. Does anyone have models for lead acid batteries?

    Either spice or schematic representations.

    I've found a few and come up with a few of my own but they are all a different
    model for charge and discharge.

    Ideally I'd like one that works under both situations.

    Gibbo
     
  2. What exactly do you wish to simulate beside a voltage source
    with series resistor ? A complete physical model ?

    Rene
     
  3. Yes. As much as possible. OC voltage dependant upon charge state, internal R,
    counter voltage (surface charge), inductance (yes there is some), internal self
    drain etc.

    Gibbo
     
  4. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    Call a battery manufacturer - they're all different, and the mfr. is
    the only one who can tell you what the actual model should be. And
    sealed lead-acid are enough different from wet lead-acid that it's
    a nontrivial design consideration. ;-) I know they know the charge
    profile and all that stuff. I heard about a dummy load that's supposed
    to simulate a battery under charge and it was basically a big ol' power
    resistor of about a half ohm, and a bank of BMF caps. That's under
    charge, of course. For discharge, a voltage source with the equivalent
    internal resistance, and the same cap bank, I'd think.

    Or, you could measure one. :)

    Cheers!
    Rich
     
  5. They're totally unhepful
    They actually don't have a clue.
    Even lead antimony and lead calcium are *so* different that a different model
    is required, not just different parameters.
    That's not even remotely close to reality.
    Plus serveral other bits.
    Aye, I've been working on that for about 6 months!

    Gibbo
     
  6. A spice model is an electrical model and not a physical model
    as far as I understood.
    A colleague of mine took the pain to do measurements on
    batteries. He just measured lead and nicads, but the cycles
    and temperature dependencies of charge, resistence and so on.
    After that he programmed a controller andf is still selling
    this to various manufacturers who need a better understanding
    of their batteries.
    Meaning this sort of knowledge is apparently sellable and
    hardly available on a newsgroups for free,

    Rene
     
  7. That's an odd argument.

    The knowledge to make a bomb (or just about anything else) is sellable but
    that's freely available on newsgroups.

    Gibbo
     
  8. Clarence

    Clarence Guest

    Then write and test a model of the target battery and post it.
     
  9. :

    [snip]
    I'm beginning to see what FB meant about you.

    Gibbo
     
  10. Clarence

    Clarence Guest

    Yeah, I 'am' honest and 'direct.'

    You were expecting someone to do some considerable work for you benefit free?

    I killfiled Fred Blogs a long time ago.
    His language was/is offensive!
     
  11. No. You're a dickhead who doesn't stop to think.
    If you need a wheel do you reinvent it?

    I suspect you won't even understand what I'm getting at there but I'm not going
    to waste my time explaining it.
    That maybe so. But I suspect you killfiled him for somwhat different reasons.
    Perhaps because he spotted what an idiot you are.

    Gibbo
     
  12. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    So many people here have a problem understanding COMMERCIAL value. A
    valid charge-control battery model would be of significant value for
    portable system analysis. And it's not a trivial undertaking, if I
    could crack it, I'd have it FOR SALE in a blink ;-)
    I can handle his language, but the village-idiot positions he took
    finally got to me, and I kill-filed him until after the election and
    then I'll see if he tames down. He CAN be technically brilliant when
    he's not ranting.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  13. Jim Thompson wrote:

    [snip]
    What exactly do you mean by "charge-control battery model" ?

    Gibbo
     
  14. Clarence

    Clarence Guest

    Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
    I think your very impolite!
    So you are as lazy as I suspected? Answering a question with a question is not
    acceptable for getting respect.
    Oh, I understand, your lazy!
    Actually, I was concise in my reason. Your just looking for a reason to use
    your entire vocabulary of four letter words, I suspect your another potty
    mouth.
     
  15. Clarence

    Clarence Guest

    Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
    I think your very impolite!
    So you are as lazy as I suspected? Answering a question with a question is not
    acceptable for getting respect.
    Oh, I understand, your lazy!
    Actually, I was concise in my reason. Your just looking for a reason to use
    your entire vocabulary of four letter words, I suspect your another potty
    mouth.

    Read Jim Thompson's response before you say more.
    If you feel like insulting him, don't!
     
  16. :

    (and this is the last response you will get from me - you're an idiot)
    Is that supposed to somehow bother me?
    Again, is that supposed to......
    Pathetic.

    And I quote from above....

    "If you need a wheel do you reinvent it?"

    "So you are as lazy as I suspected?"

    You then go on to say...

    "Answering a question with a question is not acceptable for getting respect."

    You haven't quite got the hang of this have you.
    It's "you're" not "your"
    "you're"

    Four letter words? So not only can you not differentiate between "you're" and
    "your", you also cannot count.
    Child.

    Gibbo
     
  17. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    In a battery everything is a function of the state-of-charge,
    including the effective resistance and voltage. And everything varies
    depending on whether you are in charge or discharge conditions... and
    the time spent in each mode.

    But it wouldn't surprise me to find that such a model already exists.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  18. Indeed, and I am close to completeing such a model however I wanted to see what
    else other people had managed to come up with or indeed if there is a generally
    accepted version already out there.

    Gibbo
     
  19. Clarence

    Clarence Guest

    Gave a childish response.
     
  20. Rich Grise

    Rich Grise Guest

    How is it you manage, then, to continue to fight with somebody
    who you claim you've killfiled?

    Or are you simply a liar, as Fred impugns?

    Thanks,
    Rich
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-