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layout ir2110

Hi, i'm making the board for an inverter, the specifications are
voltage rail 300V and maximum current of 40A (the current in fact will
be lower maybe 20A), here you can see the first rough copy of the
layout http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8744/ir2110fh8.jpg, in the
left you can see the tracks and in the right the components, there is a
hcpl2530 and an ir2113, the rest of components are capacitors,
resistors and diodes, the layout is not finished so don't care about
the thin tracks that you can see in the lm7815. So my question is what
do you think about the layout? is gonna work?, what can i improve.?....

I have read in some places that i need a really big copper plane for my
gnd, but i'm not sure what really big means, i have readen the an 978
and in the figure 7, connects the rectifier board via twisted wire to
the power circuit board which has a power line plane and a gnd plane,
so this mean that have i to put a board with a gnd plane and with a
power line plane and then connect this board to the board with the
igbt's?, i hope that everybody undestand what i say.

There will be a board only with the igbt's and i will connect this
board to the board with the ir2113 with a wire, any special cares
should i have to connect the gate of the igbt's with the ir2113?.
Thanks so much in advance.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi, i'm making the board for an inverter, the specifications are
voltage rail 300V and maximum current of 40A (the current in fact will
be lower maybe 20A), here you can see the first rough copy of the
layout http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8744/ir2110fh8.jpg, in the
left you can see the tracks and in the right the components, there is a
hcpl2530 and an ir2113, the rest of components are capacitors,
resistors and diodes, the layout is not finished so don't care about
the thin tracks that you can see in the lm7815. So my question is what
do you think about the layout? is gonna work?, what can i improve.?....

I have read in some places that i need a really big copper plane for my
gnd, but i'm not sure what really big means, i have readen the an 978
and in the figure 7, connects the rectifier board via twisted wire to
the power circuit board which has a power line plane and a gnd plane,
so this mean that have i to put a board with a gnd plane and with a
power line plane and then connect this board to the board with the
igbt's?, i hope that everybody undestand what i say.

There will be a board only with the igbt's and i will connect this
board to the board with the ir2113 with a wire, any special cares
should i have to connect the gate of the igbt's with the ir2113?.
Thanks so much in advance.

Talk to your board vendor. Get the thickest copper you can get.

Good Luck!
Rich
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
dated Sat said:
Talk to your board vendor. Get the thickest copper you can get.

We could give you a good price on Sir Ian Blair.
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
[email protected] wrote...
Hi, i'm making the board for an inverter, the specifications are
voltage rail 300V and maximum current of 40A (the current in fact will
be lower maybe 20A), here you can see the first rough copy of the
layout http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8744/ir2110fh8.jpg, in the
left you can see the tracks and in the right the components, there is
a hcpl2530 and an ir2113, the rest of components are capacitors,
resistors and diodes, the layout is not finished so don't care about
the thin tracks that you can see in the lm7815. So my question is what
do you think about the layout? is gonna work?, what can i improve.?....

Your design makes little sense, and it appears you misunderstand
the issues surrounding driving the high gate capacitances of large
IGBTs and MOSFETs, dealing with 2A gate-drive currents, and the
little matter of wiring inductance around the gate-current path.

Specifically, you generate and route to a 2-pin connector one each
high-side and low-side gate-drive signals, but with no return paths
for each one. Consider, for example, driving a large IGBT module.
Each IGBT, both high-side and low-side, needs its own twisted-pair
wire carrying a gate drive and a return-current emitter connection.
That means pins 5-7 for the high side IGBT gate and emitter, and
pins 1-2 for the low side IGBT gate and emitter need to be brought
to the connector, which then has to have four pins rather than two
as you are using. Do you see the huge error you have made there?

In the world of high voltages and high currents, you must become
aware of every current path and every nanosecond, and live with the
formula V = L dI/dt, which for example, tells you that switching
40A in 0.4us means you'll develop a disastrous voltage spike of
100 volts! in a small 1uH of inductive wiring. It tells you that
even if you get your inductance down to a minuscule 50nH, you'll
still have a mean 5-volt spike to deal with. That's why, e.g.,
the ir2113's COM pin (the return for the low-side IGBT, carefully
connected to the IGBT's emitter with twisted-wiring to reduce the
inductance), is generally not connected straight to ground, as you
have done. In fact, the ir2113 was painfully designed to allow up
to +/-5V offset between the Vss and COM pins for this purpose. A
direct connection means some of the high 200A/us dI/dt gate-drive
currents will flow through the ground wiring. That's bad.

I could go on with other very important issues, but my wife tells
me I have to stop now, get out the Saws-All, and rip open the wall
behind our guest-room shower to see why it's leaking down into the
gaping hole left in the kitchen ceiling by the plumber who charged
us $250 to rip open said hole, and who couldn't find anything wrong
after a few minutes cursory looking, and who left, taking his $250
and leaving us with an ugly hole. They don't do ceilings, he said.
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
dated Sat said:
I could go on with other very important issues, but my wife tells
me I have to stop now, get out the Saws-All, and rip open the wall
behind our guest-room shower to see why it's leaking down into the
gaping hole left in the kitchen ceiling by the plumber who charged
us $250 to rip open said hole, and who couldn't find anything wrong
after a few minutes cursory looking, and who left, taking his $250
and leaving us with an ugly hole. They don't do ceilings, he said.

He's missed a trick. They usually have 'relatives' who will put right
the chaos they cause. For enough $$$.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
He's missed a trick. They usually have 'relatives' who will put right
the chaos they cause. For enough $$$.

My homeowners insurance won't pay for plumbing repairs, but does pay
for damage caused by leaks... including the hole left by the plumber.

But they did pay for a plumbing re-route when a pipe broke under a
concrete floor, since the re-route cost was far less than replacing
the ceramic tile throughout the whole house... style no longer
available.

Leaking showers are almost always due to a leaking "pan". In old
homes in Massachusetts this is likely lead... Will RoHS get you ?:)

In Arizona they typically use a thick plastic membrane shoved into the
mortar, then mortared over when setting the tiles.

Molded plastic showers don't have "pans"... the bottom IS the "pan".

...Jim Thompson
 
J

John Woodgate

Jan 1, 1970
0
In message <[email protected]>, dated Sat, 26
My homeowners insurance won't pay for plumbing repairs, but does pay
for damage caused by leaks... including the hole left by the plumber.

That's normal in England, too. I was a bit surprised; my friends were
able to claim for eaves repairs due to a leak.
But they did pay for a plumbing re-route when a pipe broke under a
concrete floor, since the re-route cost was far less than replacing the
ceramic tile throughout the whole house... style no longer available.

The original gas pipe is embedded in the concrete raft on which my house
is built. It leaked very slightly in frosty weather and the gas
collected in the bathroom. I now have a pipe safely outside the house!
Leaking showers are almost always due to a leaking "pan". In old homes
in Massachusetts this is likely lead... Will RoHS get you ?:)

Yes; lead pipe has been out of the UK plumbing world for several years,
and lead-free solder has been in use for about 4 years, I think.
In Arizona they typically use a thick plastic membrane shoved into the
mortar, then mortared over when setting the tiles.

We have that under whole buildings - DPM - damp-proof membrane.
Molded plastic showers don't have "pans"... the bottom IS the "pan".

Indeed, until you drop something heavy on it. Like the wrench you need
to fix the shower-head!
 
W

Winfield Hill

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson wrote...
Actually, he did make such a suggestion, which I ignored.
My homeowners insurance won't pay for plumbing repairs, but does pay
for damage caused by leaks... including the hole left by the plumber.

Interesting, but doesn't hitting up your insurance for these little
things put you in jeopardy of a bit higher rate that can overwhelm
your savings over a period of years? I've never been one to make
insurance claims.
But they did pay for a plumbing re-route when a pipe broke under a
concrete floor, since the re-route cost was far less than replacing
the ceramic tile throughout the whole house... style no longer
available.

Leaking showers are almost always due to a leaking "pan". In old
homes in Massachusetts this is likely lead... Will RoHS get you ?:)

I should have mentioned this is a shower head on a full-size tub.
The tube is porcelain, not plastic, and can't leak, although the
caulking could if defective. Fortunately a new series of tests
found the long-standing problem before I cut open the wall: water
dribbling around the tile and shower curtain, down the side of the
tub onto the floor, along under the tub/washer-closet wall, to the
hole in the floor for the washing-machine 120V conduit. Problem
properly identified, solution at hand.
In Arizona they typically use a thick plastic membrane shoved into
the mortar, then mortared over when setting the tiles.

Hopefully they do something similar here.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson wrote...

Actually, he did make such a suggestion, which I ignored.


Interesting, but doesn't hitting up your insurance for these little
things put you in jeopardy of a bit higher rate that can overwhelm
your savings over a period of years? I've never been one to make
insurance claims.

Well... This one totaled around $4K... as opposed to $15K-20K to
replace all the floor tile.
I should have mentioned this is a shower head on a full-size tub.
The tube is porcelain, not plastic, and can't leak, although the
caulking could if defective. Fortunately a new series of tests
found the long-standing problem before I cut open the wall: water
dribbling around the tile and shower curtain, down the side of the
tub onto the floor, along under the tub/washer-closet wall, to the
hole in the floor for the washing-machine 120V conduit. Problem
properly identified, solution at hand.


Hopefully they do something similar here.


...Jim Thompson
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
In message <[email protected]>, dated Sat, 26


That's normal in England, too. I was a bit surprised; my friends were
able to claim for eaves repairs due to a leak.

Sure, if the leak was due to a storm. I had 20+ year old shingles
torn up, some metal ripped off, and a large tree taken down in a
storm. My insurance paid without a flinch (made money on the deal
too).
The original gas pipe is embedded in the concrete raft on which my house
is built. It leaked very slightly in frosty weather and the gas
collected in the bathroom. I now have a pipe safely outside the house!

"raft" = "slab"? We were looking at homes on slabs. No way, I
want a basement, even though they want $35K more.
Yes; lead pipe has been out of the UK plumbing world for several years,
and lead-free solder has been in use for about 4 years, I think.

Lead pipe? Four years? I don't think it's been allowed in the US
for fifty. Your RoHS police have some cleanup to do! ;-)
We have that under whole buildings - DPM - damp-proof membrane.

Bisqueen is the brand name here. It's a .006" layer of plastic put
under concrete floors for a vapor barrier. It also add significant
strength to the concrete.
Indeed, until you drop something heavy on it. Like the wrench you need
to fix the shower-head!

Well, don't do that. BTW, why do you need a heavy wrench to fix a
shower head. They pretty much hand-tighten (with Teflon tape in
the threads).
 
K

krw

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim Thompson wrote...

Actually, he did make such a suggestion, which I ignored.


Interesting, but doesn't hitting up your insurance for these little
things put you in jeopardy of a bit higher rate that can overwhelm
your savings over a period of years? I've never been one to make
insurance claims.

Small things, yes. Enough small things and you can be canceled;
not good. Homeowner's (like life ;) insurance is certainly not
something you want to collect on, but it's there for disasters.
I should have mentioned this is a shower head on a full-size tub.
The tube is porcelain, not plastic, and can't leak, although the
caulking could if defective. Fortunately a new series of tests
found the long-standing problem before I cut open the wall: water
dribbling around the tile and shower curtain, down the side of the
tub onto the floor, along under the tub/washer-closet wall, to the
hole in the floor for the washing-machine 120V conduit. Problem
properly identified, solution at hand.

I have a similar problem and noticed it by the sheetrock in the
bedroom underneath looking funky (wet). I ripped open the
sheetrock expecting to find a disaster like the I found in the 1/2
bath upstairs[*]. No rot, nothing. The only thing I can figure is
the grout and/or caulking around the tub have failed (the only
water seen was off the rim of the tub when my wife was showering).
I'm in process of cutting out the grout from around the tub (what a
PITA) and tiling the rest of the bathroom.

[*] The upstairs 1/2 bath looked fine until I took up the vinyl
floor. There was no sub-floor under the vanity. There was a leak
that the previous owners had tried to hide with another layer of
plywood and a dam of aluminum flashing and calk under the
baseboards. Evidently they thought the leak was from the sink.
Nope, there was a pin-hole in a pipe in the wall (a nail had been
dropped inside and rotted through). THere wasn't enough water to
show in the sheetrock in the kitchen below, but enough to rot out
the sub-floor.
Hopefully they do something similar here.

Find out. BTW, alt.home.repair is a good group to ask such
questions.
 
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