Laminate flooring and ESD?

[Joerg]

Gentlemen,

My office and lab carpets are nearly shot. The office from all those
roller chairs, the lab from, well, a few kablouies and stuff. Here in
the US I can't find the foam-backed short-loop carpet I had in Germany
which never created any ESD issues. Contemplated wood flooring such as
bamboo but a friend advised against that. Occasionally the dogs are here
and when the Fedex truck pulls up they perform a Fred Flintstone start
-> big scratches. He suggested laminate.

Not that I like laminate but does anyone know how ESD-prone it is? Any
recommended brands? I mean the regular stuff, not top-Dollar specialty
products.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Gentlemen,

My office and lab carpets are nearly shot. The office from all those
roller chairs, the lab from, well, a few kablouies and stuff. Here in
the US I can't find the foam-backed short-loop carpet I had in Germany
which never created any ESD issues. Contemplated wood flooring such as
bamboo but a friend advised against that. Occasionally the dogs are here
and when the Fedex truck pulls up they perform a Fred Flintstone start
-> big scratches. He suggested laminate.

Not that I like laminate but does anyone know how ESD-prone it is? Any
recommended brands? I mean the regular stuff, not top-Dollar specialty
products.

If by "laminate" you mean "fake linoleum", the regular stuff is not
considered ESD safe. You can either buy conductive wax, which seems to
be pretty good, or you can buy conductive laminate which is probably
that "top dollar specialty" item that you mentioned, and is butt-ugly to
boot.

Were I going to go that route I'd pencil out the cost of keeping the
floor waxed (including my own labor costs) vs. conductive laminate.

You can also get a spray-on ESD treatment for carpets, so you can use
the regular "corporate" short-pile carpeting.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Joerg]

If by "laminate" you mean "fake linoleum", the regular stuff is not
considered ESD safe. You can either buy conductive wax, which seems to
be pretty good, or you can buy conductive laminate which is probably
that "top dollar specialty" item that you mentioned, and is butt-ugly to
boot.

I meant more the "laminate hardwood" stuff, looks like wood flooring but
just not quite as good (too shiny). Some people call it engineered wood.
Among homeowners it is frowned upon for lack of "poshness" but that
picture changes for people who have large dogs or small children.

Were I going to go that route I'd pencil out the cost of keeping the
floor waxed (including my own labor costs) vs. conductive laminate.

That I'd definitely want to avoid.

You can also get a spray-on ESD treatment for carpets, so you can use
the regular "corporate" short-pile carpeting.

The only short loop stuff I've seen is the kind that must be glued down
with some stinky heavy duty goo. In Europe they have this carpet with a
foam back. Spread a dose of milky odorless fluid, lay the carpet, done.
When you need a new carpet you wet it all real good, pick it up and
there is barely any residue to clean. Glued down office carpet needs a
serious body builder to pull that up.

 

[Jim Thompson]

I meant more the "laminate hardwood" stuff, looks like wood flooring but
just not quite as good (too shiny). Some people call it engineered wood.
Among homeowners it is frowned upon for lack of "poshness" but that
picture changes for people who have large dogs or small children.



That I'd definitely want to avoid.



The only short loop stuff I've seen is the kind that must be glued down
with some stinky heavy duty goo. In Europe they have this carpet with a
foam back. Spread a dose of milky odorless fluid, lay the carpet, done.
When you need a new carpet you wet it all real good, pick it up and
there is barely any residue to clean. Glued down office carpet needs a
serious body builder to pull that up.

I'm interested also. The wife says my office looks "like shit" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Tim Wescott]

I'm interested also. The wife says my office looks "like shit" ;-)

...Jim Thompson

For a large enough order I bet you could have vinyl flooring custom
printed with just about anything you wanted. Even a large pile of ...

Well, you get the idea.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Joerg]

I'm interested also. The wife says my office looks "like shit" ;-)

N. and M. seem to have entered a conspiracy because exactly that is what
happened here this weekend. If it was just me, I'd keep the carpet
another 5-10 years.

Since you have small Dachshunds and your switch-mode gizmos explode
virtually on SPICE instead of molten solder and stuff like here you
might consider real hardwood. It looks so much nicer. I really like the
bamboo flooring. But in my case it's unlikely to survive :-(

 

[Tim Wescott]

I meant more the "laminate hardwood" stuff, looks like wood flooring but
just not quite as good (too shiny). Some people call it engineered wood.
Among homeowners it is frowned upon for lack of "poshness" but that
picture changes for people who have large dogs or small children.



That I'd definitely want to avoid.

I dunno -- excited dogs on a well-waxed floor can be pretty entertaining.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[Joerg]

I dunno -- excited dogs on a well-waxed floor can be pretty entertaining.

Happened after I laid tile. Rottweiler heard a fox bark. Came out of the
hallway sliding on his butt. Now they have figured out how to "glide"
into place right in front of the pantry where the food is stocked.

The problem is they don't give up when traction isn't there, they just
increase the rpm of their paws. Yesterday I looked at the aftermath of
when a boxer did that on a bamboo floor. Not pretty.

 

[Jim Thompson]

N. and M. seem to have entered a conspiracy because exactly that is what
happened here this weekend. If it was just me, I'd keep the carpet
another 5-10 years.

Since you have small Dachshunds and your switch-mode gizmos explode
virtually on SPICE instead of molten solder and stuff like here you
might consider real hardwood. It looks so much nicer. I really like the
bamboo flooring. But in my case it's unlikely to survive :-(

Yep. I've been thinking of wood also. Though some of the cork
flooring is nice.

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

I dunno -- excited dogs on a well-waxed floor can be pretty entertaining.

Not nearly as much as a cat ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Jim Thompson]

Happened after I laid tile. Rottweiler heard a fox bark. Came out of the
hallway sliding on his butt. Now they have figured out how to "glide"
into place right in front of the pantry where the food is stocked.

The problem is they don't give up when traction isn't there, they just
increase the rpm of their paws. Yesterday I looked at the aftermath of
when a boxer did that on a bamboo floor. Not pretty.

That's why the cat is de-clawed... "reversed-engine" damage ;-)

...Jim Thompson

 

[Vladimir Vassilevsky]

Joerg wrote:

Happened after I laid tile. Rottweiler heard a fox bark. Came out of the
hallway sliding on his butt. Now they have figured out how to "glide"
into place right in front of the pantry where the food is stocked.

The problem is they don't give up when traction isn't there, they just
increase the rpm of their paws. Yesterday I looked at the aftermath of
when a boxer did that on a bamboo floor. Not pretty.

Put a sandpaper on the floor. If they try, that will wear them up to
their ears

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

http://www.abvolt.com

 

[Tim Wescott]

Not nearly as much as a cat ;-)

At one point when we were growing up we had a good half dozen kittens
and a hall floor with a 90 degree bend. There's nothing like a herd of
kittens scrambling around on waxed linoleum to get you rolling on the floor.

It was so much fun us kids kept the floor swept and waxed -- at least
until the kittens grew out of it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

 

[John Larkin]

Gentlemen,

My office and lab carpets are nearly shot. The office from all those
roller chairs, the lab from, well, a few kablouies and stuff. Here in
the US I can't find the foam-backed short-loop carpet I had in Germany
which never created any ESD issues. Contemplated wood flooring such as
bamboo but a friend advised against that. Occasionally the dogs are here
and when the Fedex truck pulls up they perform a Fred Flintstone start
-> big scratches. He suggested laminate.

Not that I like laminate but does anyone know how ESD-prone it is? Any
recommended brands? I mean the regular stuff, not top-Dollar specialty
products.

Carpet isn't usually too bad. Chairs are the real bummer. Slide your
butt off a typical lab-type chair and you'll take away a huge charge.

But it's probably worse up there in the hills. Here on the coast, the
humidity seldom gets below 50%, and I'm convinced there's a fine layer
of salt spray on everything, given how stuff rusts here.

John

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

For a large enough order I bet you could have vinyl flooring custom
printed with just about anything you wanted. Even a large pile of ...

Well, you get the idea.

For those of us who drop the occasional component or important screw on
the floor, give some consideration to maximizing the contrast by
selecting an appropriate pattern/color.

 

[Joerg]

Carpet isn't usually too bad. Chairs are the real bummer. Slide your
butt off a typical lab-type chair and you'll take away a huge charge.

Well, there we never skimped. Only the best orthopedic grade chairs,
mainly because my back isn't that great anymore. The cloth on those is
really good, no ESD issues. It also seems to last forever.

But it's probably worse up there in the hills. Here on the coast, the
humidity seldom gets below 50%, and I'm convinced there's a fine layer
of salt spray on everything, given how stuff rusts here.

We are often close to 0% which is why people with heat pumps are paying
through the nose and A/C doesn't work well. When I open my EMI box you
can sometimes see a large blueish flash-over followed by a loud pop.

 

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Gentlemen,

My office and lab carpets are nearly shot. The office from all those
roller chairs, the lab from, well, a few kablouies and stuff. Here in
the US I can't find the foam-backed short-loop carpet I had in Germany
which never created any ESD issues. Contemplated wood flooring such as
bamboo but a friend advised against that. Occasionally the dogs are here
and when the Fedex truck pulls up they perform a Fred Flintstone start
-> big scratches. He suggested laminate.

Have you considered stone or ceramic tile? A bit spendy perhaps, but
tough.

For ESD protection, consider an anti-ESD mat (equipped with a grounding
lug). They make rolling a chair around easier than on carpet or uneven
surfaces as an added benefit.

 

[Joerg]

For those of us who drop the occasional component or important screw on
the floor, give some consideration to maximizing the contrast by
selecting an appropriate pattern/color.

For 0402, 0201 and SC-75 it doesn't really matter anymore once your eyes
are over 40. Not a chance.

 

[Joerg]

Have you considered stone or ceramic tile? A bit spendy perhaps, but
tough.

It's actually not much more expensive. I did over 1000 sqft in porcelain
over the years, with my own hands. It's just the knees that hurt after a
while. My wife thinks tile isn't so cool in here, too cold. When it
comes to decor she's boss. And after I have laid tile it will be a bear
to ever get them out again because there is a 2" concrete layer below.
Plus I "back-butter" them and always make sure there is 100% thinset
contact.

For ESD protection, consider an anti-ESD mat (equipped with a grounding
lug). They make rolling a chair around easier than on carpet or uneven
surfaces as an added benefit.

Sure but ESD mats are plastic and I've never seen one last more than a
few months. They tear, just like those plastic carpet protector mats.

 

[ChairmanOfTheBored]

If by "laminate" you mean "fake linoleum", the regular stuff is not
considered ESD safe. You can either buy conductive wax, which seems to
be pretty good, or you can buy conductive laminate which is probably
that "top dollar specialty" item that you mentioned, and is butt-ugly to
boot.

ESD wax is worthless applied on an insulator as well. It only works
when applied on properly installed ESD tiling.

Were I going to go that route I'd pencil out the cost of keeping the
floor waxed (including my own labor costs) vs. conductive laminate.

Your maintenance costs alone would warrant the correct tile being used.

You can also get a spray-on ESD treatment for carpets, so you can use
the regular "corporate" short-pile carpeting.

That is NOT "ESD treatment", it is "Anti-static" treatment. BIG
difference. It merely means that in a high humidity environments (a
requirement for proper function), it will not accumulate a charge or
apply electrons to something moving across it via triboelectric effect.

ESD MEANS that it DISCHARGES to ground, anything that carries a charge.

Rarely are such elements hole carriers. In nearly ALL cases, there is
an electron excess type charge... a negative charge.

I would get 8 inch ESD tiles, placed on a know well grounded slab using
conductive adhesive and also place a brass or steel tile grid down of 50
mil X 0.125" flat stock. That way, the tiles remain grounded, the grid
remains grounded, and the wax passes discharge capacity testing for a
longer period.

As an aside, standard heel straps, even on a non-conducting floor take
the wearer so much closer to ground than insulative shoes that they,
along with a simple smock are all that are required for personnel.

One should also ALWAYS insure that assemblies are carried in ESD bags,
NOT PINK POLY. This would be metal out Faraday cage type bags, OR full
on dissipative black conductive bags, and ensure that one grounds one's
self at the ESD workstation before opening the bag or touching any
circuit sitting at said workstation.