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lack of support at Home Technology Store

I preferred to own my alarm equipment rather than "rent" from one of
the big companies, and I had access to a good installer. So I bought
equipment from "Home Technology Store" which promised e-mail tech
support for purchases. I don't need much support, but I did have one
question about the sounder wiring. The monitoring service they are
reselling it turns out does not cover my area (the reseller took my
$$$, not the alarm company).

You can probably guess what kind of a response I got to a query.

"If (name of alarm company) does not offer service your area, then you
will have to contact them for a refund. For your siren trouble, please
call us for technical support."

Moral of story: if you have a good installer you are set, but don't
expect ANYTHING from someplace like Home Technology Store.

P.S. all I wanted to know was on an Ademco Vista 20P panel, if you make
the sounders supervised by cutting one jumper as shown in the manual,
where exactly should the resistor be placed. The manual implies the
sounders are in series.

Sorry for the rant.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
It goes across the bell terminals (at the bell) just like it shows in the
install manual...page 2-4

Bells, sirens, sounders are _never_ in series.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I preferred to own my alarm equipment rather than "rent" from one of
the big companies, and I had access to a good installer. So I bought
equipment from "Home Technology Store" which promised e-mail tech
support for purchases. I don't need much support, but I did have one
question about the sounder wiring. The monitoring service they are
reselling it turns out does not cover my area (the reseller took my
$$$, not the alarm company).

I take it you're referring to "NextAlarm"??

You can probably guess what kind of a response I got to a query.

"If (name of alarm company) does not offer service your area, then you
will have to contact them for a refund. For your siren trouble, please
call us for technical support."

Interesting. I'd contact your credit card company and have *them* resolve
the issue. Explain that you haven't received what you paid for.

Moral of story: if you have a good installer you are set, but don't
expect ANYTHING from someplace like Home Technology Store.

Purchasing any product like this "on line" carries a degree of risk. There
are some stores with better reputations. Do your homework first.

P.S. all I wanted to know was on an Ademco Vista 20P panel, if you make
the sounders supervised by cutting one jumper as shown in the manual,
where exactly should the resistor be placed. The manual implies the
sounders are in series.

No. The manual "implies" the sounders are in parallel with the end of line
across the terminals of the last sounder. "End of line" resistors are
usually mounted at the last device in the circuit they're "supervising"...

Sorry for the rant.


Don't be. It was actually a "rfreshing" change from the constant complaints
against Bass Burglar Alarms.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
I preferred to own my alarm equipment rather than "rent" from one of
the big companies, and I had access to a good installer. So I bought
equipment from "Home Technology Store" which promised e-mail tech
support for purchases. I don't need much support, but I did have one
question about the sounder wiring. The monitoring service they are
reselling it turns out does not cover my area (the reseller took my
$$$, not the alarm company).
<snip>

Just curious but ...... why would you purchase the equipment yourself
and then have an installer put it in for you? You've obviously paid
more for the equipment than the installer would. Sure, he's going to
mark up equipment that he provides, if he gives you a quote for a full
job, including equipment, but he'd be marking up from his price. He'd
likely be giving you at least a one year warrantee on parts and labor
too. He'd also be responsible for seeing to it that your monitoring
service was providing you with the service you're paying for. Since he
would have a number of accounts with his central, he'd obviously have
more influence with them regarding your quality of service. You, as and
end user dealing direct with a central, don't have any leverage
whatsoever. Also, if anyone called me to bid on this kind of
installation, I'd only discount the price for the equipment based on
what ... I .... paid for it, not you. So .... what I'm saying is ....
it seems as if you've paid more for the equipment, more for the
installation, have unknown quality of monitoring service and the
installer is free and clear, if anything goes wrong with the parts you
purchased or your central doesn't do their job. He may give you a
warrantee on wiring, if something fails. But anything else he's free to
charge you. Also, I'd imagine that since you weren't one of his regular
accounts, using him for monitoring, he's likely to charge you more for
a service call than one of his monitored accounts. I wish I could get 5
jobs a week .... like that.

Or am I missing something?
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've done a few cctv jobs with this kinda relationship...they bought the
equipment for what they thought was a great price then paid me to install
it...sure why not...just remember I don't warranty it and when it needs to
be pulled you pay me again to come out and pull it out and you send it to
repair, then you pay me again to come back and install it again.
 
B

Beachcomber

Jan 1, 1970
0
I've done a few cctv jobs with this kinda relationship...they bought the
equipment for what they thought was a great price then paid me to install
it...sure why not...just remember I don't warranty it and when it needs to
be pulled you pay me again to come out and pull it out and you send it to
repair, then you pay me again to come back and install it again.

Lots of monitoring companies are physically located outside of the
area where their customers are located. Typically, the alarm devices
are programmed to dial a toll free number and then they call back the
Police Dept. and other numbers on the contact list that you provide.

This is not necessarily bad. If you live in a small town or rural
area you may need to go with an out-of-town company.

Beachcomber
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash said:
I've done a few cctv jobs with this kinda relationship...they bought the
equipment for what they thought was a great price then paid me to install
it...sure why not...just remember I don't warranty it and when it needs to
be pulled you pay me again to come out and pull it out and you send it to
repair, then you pay me again to come back and install it again.

I know what you mean. It's like "free money"
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yah I know...for years I wouldn't do it...then my buddy says why not?...its
like making money with no responsibility to back up the equipment they
purchased elsewhere!
 
Yes I'm probably an idiot but (1) when I renovated I saw the garbage a
sizeable local monitoring company had previously installed and I wanted
top shelf stuff and (2) I wanted hardwire that was going to be a real
pain in the rump because of house layout and nobody really wanted to do
it and (3) I have the Andersen windows that installers hate and (4) I
had access to a commercial installer who would moonlight the panel
install if needed. Oh and my in-law is a retired electrical type who
supervised the wiring placement like a Marine drill sargeant (best part
of all).

My big mistake was letting the equipment reseller sell me service
before the above was all complete. Oh well lessons learned.

All I am doing currently is adding a siren in the attic. It seems
happy now.

Thanks and best wishes to all of you -- you seem to be all over North
America.
 
J

julian

Jan 1, 1970
0
Lots of monitoring companies are physically located outside of the
area where their customers are located. Typically, the alarm devices
are programmed to dial a toll free number and then they call back the
Police Dept. and other numbers on the contact list that you provide.

This is not necessarily bad. If you live in a small town or rural
area you may need to go with an out-of-town company.

Beachcomber


Uh, perhaps you should reread the previous posts. Nobody was complaing
about CSs in other states. I was said the CS that the poster
contracted though the equipment sellers doesn't provide service in the
area the poster live in. Why? Who knows. Maybe they don't want to be
licenced in the area; that would certainly disquailfy them from
providing service.

Julian.
 
J

julian

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes I'm probably an idiot but (1) when I renovated I saw the garbage a
sizeable local monitoring company had previously installed and I wanted
top shelf stuff and (2) I wanted hardwire that was going to be a real
pain in the rump because of house layout and nobody really wanted to do
it and (3) I have the Andersen windows that installers hate and (4) I
had access to a commercial installer who would moonlight the panel
install if needed. Oh and my in-law is a retired electrical type who
supervised the wiring placement like a Marine drill sargeant (best part
of all).

My big mistake was letting the equipment reseller sell me service
before the above was all complete. Oh well lessons learned.

All I am doing currently is adding a siren in the attic. It seems
happy now.

Thanks and best wishes to all of you -- you seem to be all over North
America.


You just need to find a decent 'smaller' alarm company. You can get
top shelf equipment from any company. Just because the last owner of
your home was a cheap bastard and got a low end panel doesn't mean
that's all that's available. Did you ask?

When you say 'hardwire that was going to be a real pain in the rump
because of house layout and nobody really wanted to do it' and 'I have
the Andersen windows that installers hate', how did you come to these
conclusions? I regularly get retrofit alarm jobs simply because I'm
confident that my installer CAN wire ANY house without wire showing
and the other salespeople say there's no way to do it except
wirelessly. Being an installer myself helps because I can show the
client approx how the wire will get to the tough spots. After my
installer did the fully finished two story house with no useable
attic and on a cement slab, he's proved he can run and conceal a wire
anywhere.

Once a company/technician develops a method for protecting the
Andersen windows, it should be easy. Not quick, but easy.

Oh, and you should be prepared to pay a reasonable amount for the
work. Like my Chinese Grandfather says "Cheap stuff no good and good
stuff no cheap."

Julian.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
I don't have a problem with diy'ers in general, just the ones that really
shouldn't be doing it...like they don't know which end of a battery is +.

In fact I'm helping my neighbor on his new house...he wants to do all the
labor...I'm just supervising and supplying equipment on a mostly wireless
that's gonna still cost him almost 4k. Yah..Andersons are a pain but doable
if the homeowner pitches in. This stupid house is brand new and it wasn't
prewired...which is probably a good thing because I saw the prewire job
across the street...it was just wire stubs..no actual wires installed !!! I
think the builder got ripped off on that one.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes I'm probably an idiot but (1) when I renovated I saw the garbage a
sizeable local monitoring company had previously installed and I wanted
top shelf stuff and

(2) I wanted hardwire that was going to be a real
pain in the rump because of house layout and nobody really wanted to do
it.

I can imagine that some houses might be difficult but I've never seen a
house that was "impossible" to hardwire. I live in the Northeast so
frame houses are what is popular here. I hear that there are some new
construction methods using foam or concrete which could probably be
prewired, but after market alarm systems would have to be wireless.
Transmission strength could be a problem through concrete too. I can
also imagine that as radiant heating becomes more popular, drilling
will become riskier.

(3) I have the Andersen windows that installers hate and


Which Andersens would that be? The only ones that I don't like are the
big wooden sliders ..... only because I don't like the way I have to
install the contacts. All the rest are pretty easy.
(4) I
had access to a commercial installer who would moonlight the panel
install if needed. Oh and my in-law is a retired electrical type who
supervised the wiring placement like a Marine drill sargeant (best part
of all).

My big mistake was letting the equipment reseller sell me service
before the above was all complete. Oh well lessons learned.

All I am doing currently is adding a siren in the attic. It seems
happy now.

Thanks and best wishes to all of you -- you seem to be all over North
America.

Yep, from Ca AZ TX LA MD Fl NY Canada and probably a few more that I've
missed. Every once in awhile someone from England, Germany, Japan Italy
and other countries too .. drops in.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Try a flat top, with block walls firred out with only 1" firring strips,
built on a slab, with steel casement windows and the SNI on the opposite
side of the house from the garage. Oh yeah, when the exterior walls are
block or slump block the top window lintel is 1/4" steel L beam.

Oh..yeah..ceramic tile floors.

Can't get much harder that that!
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash said:
Try a flat top, with block walls firred out with only 1" firring strips,
built on a slab, with steel casement windows and the SNI on the opposite
side of the house from the garage. Oh yeah, when the exterior walls are
block or slump block the top window lintel is 1/4" steel L beam.

Oh..yeah..ceramic tile floors.

Can't get much harder that that!
Dang new fangled inventions.

It was so much easier when I first started in this industry. Just wedge
a bolder over the cave door with a trip vine. It was sometimes messy
but it worked. And there was only ever one false alarm per customer.
After that, someone new would occupy the cave.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Oh yeah...the old Splat Tech alarm system.



Jim said:
Dang new fangled inventions.

It was so much easier when I first started in this industry. Just wedge
a bolder over the cave door with a trip vine. It was sometimes messy
but it worked. And there was only ever one false alarm per customer.
After that, someone new would occupy the cave.
 
B

Bob Worthy

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
Try a flat top, with block walls firred out with only 1" firring strips,
built on a slab, with steel casement windows and the SNI on the opposite
side of the house from the garage. Oh yeah, when the exterior walls are
block or slump block the top window lintel is 1/4" steel L beam.

Oh..yeah..ceramic tile floors.

Can't get much harder that that!

Until you get the second floor deck poured concrete and the interior studs
are all metal as well. Welcome to S. Florida.
 
Interesting discussion. Yes I unintentionally ended up as a DIY'er
after getting three quotes from smaller installers. Money was not the
main issue: construction has been so busy here that difficult jobs go
to the bottom of the list (if they make it at all).

Best wishes.
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ever try to drill through a pre-stressed concrete floor? sheet.
 
R

Robert L Bass

Jan 1, 1970
0
Ever try to drill through a pre-stressed concrete floor?

Yep. I have a Bosch rotary hammer -- not a "hammer drill" -- for
just such jobs. Years ago we had to install a fire alarm in a
multi-story apartment building in Hartford. Everything had to be
in conduit. When I tried using my 1/2-inch Milwaukee it was like
trying to drill cement with a twist bit.

I brought out the Bosch hammer and it went right through like we
were drilling pine boards. The sound of it (like a demolition
hammer) also brought lots of curious tenants to their doors. :^)

--

Regards,
Robert L Bass

Bass Burglar Alarms
The Online DIY Store
http://www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
 
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