Keeping up with Cables in new installation

[[email protected]]

I have a number of commercial jobs coming up. They are all new
construction. It looks like most of the jobs will have about 15
detectors, several keypads, several sirens, 7-8 access control units,
and 7-8 electric locks, and a digital video recording system (10-12
cameras).. There will also be magnetic locks on several outside doors,
that will be locally monitored. In all, there will be somewhere around
60 cable runs. Now I know that there are many ways that an installer
can keep up with his cable runs, but I would just like to know how you
would keep up with your cable runs on a simular installation, when
working alone. One other ingrediant; there will be about 3 months
between running the cables and final installation. My mind does not
remember things too well these days. Thank you.

 

[Jackcsg]

Need some help?

 

[[email protected]]

Everyone seems to have his own favorite method of marking cables.
Here's mine. Write directly on the cables, about two feet from each
end, what they do and where the other end is. Sharpie brand fine tip
laundry markers work well on most every type of cable jacket I've used
over the years. The ink dries quickly and it will last until Jesus
comes back.

Regards,
Robert L Bass
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[Crash Gordon]

Wire # tags and a wirelist.


|I have a number of commercial jobs coming up. They are all new
| construction. It looks like most of the jobs will have about 15
| detectors, several keypads, several sirens, 7-8 access control units,
| and 7-8 electric locks, and a digital video recording system (10-12
| cameras).. There will also be magnetic locks on several outside doors,
| that will be locally monitored. In all, there will be somewhere around
| 60 cable runs. Now I know that there are many ways that an installer
| can keep up with his cable runs, but I would just like to know how you
| would keep up with your cable runs on a simular installation, when
| working alone. One other ingrediant; there will be about 3 months
| between running the cables and final installation. My mind does not
| remember things too well these days. Thank you.
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Except when they spray drywall mud all over...you gotta cover it with
plastic bag if you write on the wires.


| Everyone seems to have his own favorite method of marking cables.
| Here's mine. Write directly on the cables, about two feet from each
| end, what they do and where the other end is. Sharpie brand fine tip
| laundry markers work well on most every type of cable jacket I've used
| over the years. The ink dries quickly and it will last until Jesus
| comes back.
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
| www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
|

 

[alarman]

I prefer a wirelist because I store the wirelist in a db for every
job...client calls in wants to add something...I already know if we have a
wire there or not. Tagging the wires with words would mean a trip out there
to see if we prewired for something...this way I can give them a price in 2
seconds.

Not only that, check out the price of the labels. Yeow!
js

 

[Crash Gordon]

I prefer a wirelist because I store the wirelist in a db for every
job...client calls in wants to add something...I already know if we have a
wire there or not. Tagging the wires with words would mean a trip out there
to see if we prewired for something...this way I can give them a price in 2
seconds.


| www.milestek.com has it for $81.25!
|
| Mike Sokoly wrote:
| > Try One of these: about 100 bucks:
| >> http://global.dymo.com/enUS/Products/RhinoPRO_3000.html
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > Crash Gordon wrote:
| >> Wire # tags and a wirelist.
| >>
| >>
| >> | >> |I have a number of commercial jobs coming up. They are all new
| >> | construction. It looks like most of the jobs will have about 15
| >> | detectors, several keypads, several sirens, 7-8 access control
units,
| >> | and 7-8 electric locks, and a digital video recording system (10-12
| >> | cameras).. There will also be magnetic locks on several outside
doors,
| >> | that will be locally monitored. In all, there will be somewhere
around
| >> | 60 cable runs. Now I know that there are many ways that an installer
| >> | can keep up with his cable runs, but I would just like to know how
you
| >> | would keep up with your cable runs on a simular installation, when
| >> | working alone. One other ingrediant; there will be about 3 months
| >> | between running the cables and final installation. My mind does not
| >> | remember things too well these days. Thank you.
| >> |
| >>

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yah..I know. I do have a similar product but I only use if for stereo stuff
which I don't keep in a db.
I had one of the expensive ones but one of my guys dropped it off a 12 ft
ladder...bada bing.



| | > I prefer a wirelist because I store the wirelist in a db for every
| > job...client calls in wants to add something...I already know if we have
a
| > wire there or not. Tagging the wires with words would mean a trip out
| there
| > to see if we prewired for something...this way I can give them a price
in
| 2
| > seconds.
|
| Not only that, check out the price of the labels. Yeow!
| js
|
|
|

 

[[email protected]]

Brady labels -> http://www.bradyid.com/

 

[Bill]

Wires numbered at both ends *and* a building diagram with numbers indicating
location of wires.

 

[Jim]

I have a number of commercial jobs coming up. They are all new
construction. It looks like most of the jobs will have about 15
detectors, several keypads, several sirens, 7-8 access control units,
and 7-8 electric locks, and a digital video recording system (10-12
cameras).. There will also be magnetic locks on several outside doors,
that will be locally monitored. In all, there will be somewhere around
60 cable runs. Now I know that there are many ways that an installer
can keep up with his cable runs, but I would just like to know how you
would keep up with your cable runs on a simular installation, when
working alone. One other ingrediant; there will be about 3 months
between running the cables and final installation. My mind does not
remember things too well these days. Thank you.

Something I used to do on big jobs was to make all motion detectors
......say tan wire.
All door contacts brown wire. etc etc along with a number list or word
tags or writing on wire. Makes it a lot easier to keep track of ,sort
out and trace wires if necessary. How the wires are marked would
depend on the size of the job, and how many people were working on it
or if I'm not going to be working on it at all and having a sub do the
work. If you do the work, you're going to remember some of what you did
and you should have developed some pattern to your wiring. If someone
else is doing it, you'll want them to give you the most detail as they
can. Written wire list take the most time and attention but is best.

 

[[email protected]]

Except when they spray drywall mud all over...you gotta cover it with plastic bag if you write on the wires.

True. Of course, that's also true of other wire-marking methods. What
I like about my method compared to a wirelist is there's nothing to
lose. If the wirelist is somehow misplaced it can be a royal pain
toning out the system.

Many years ago when panels were only a few zones I used punchblocks to
splice the cables. I'd write up a legend and tape it to the inside of
the metal cover. The legend identified every position on the
110-block. A mag contact served as a tamper sensor on the inside of
the cover. I used wirelists a few times until one of my techs started
labeling the wires with a Sharpie. From then on that was the method we
used.

Regards,
Robert L Bass
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

 

[JoeRaisin]

We use tha sharpie method and usually you can break off the mud and
still discern the wording underneath. on the few you can't... thats
what the toner is for.
the trick is to not use too fine a point on the sharpie. thick black
lines are easy to read even in poor lighting and the wire legend never
gets lost unless your helpful sub cuts off the wires - but even then
they weren't lost.... just mixed up...

And now they have the push button sharpies - Click-click and you're in
business... no more caps in the teeth and black dots on the cheeks...

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yah but with wire tags even if they spray paint on them you can just unravel
a bit of it to see the number.
Lost? If my guys lose the wirelist they don't get paid for that job...simple
incentive.


|> Except when they spray drywall mud all over...you gotta cover it with
plastic bag if you write on the wires.
|
| True. Of course, that's also true of other wire-marking methods. What
| I like about my method compared to a wirelist is there's nothing to
| lose. If the wirelist is somehow misplaced it can be a royal pain
| toning out the system.
|
| Many years ago when panels were only a few zones I used punchblocks to
| splice the cables. I'd write up a legend and tape it to the inside of
| the metal cover. The legend identified every position on the
| 110-block. A mag contact served as a tamper sensor on the inside of
| the cover. I used wirelists a few times until one of my techs started
| labeling the wires with a Sharpie. From then on that was the method we
| used.
|
| Regards,
| Robert L Bass
| www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
|
|

 

[Crash Gordon]

Back when we were much bigger and buying wire by the truckload, I used to
have the wire manufacture print on the wire A-Z 0-9 all my guys had to do
was black out a letter & #...worked ok...but still prefer tags.


| We use tha sharpie method and usually you can break off the mud and
| still discern the wording underneath. on the few you can't... thats
| what the toner is for.
| the trick is to not use too fine a point on the sharpie. thick black
| lines are easy to read even in poor lighting and the wire legend never
| gets lost unless your helpful sub cuts off the wires - but even then
| they weren't lost.... just mixed up...
|
| And now they have the push button sharpies - Click-click and you're in
| business... no more caps in the teeth and black dots on the cheeks...
|
| Crash Gordon wrote:
|
| > Except when they spray drywall mud all over...you gotta cover it with
| > plastic bag if you write on the wires.
| >
| >
| > | > | Everyone seems to have his own favorite method of marking cables.
| > | Here's mine. Write directly on the cables, about two feet from each
| > | end, what they do and where the other end is. Sharpie brand fine tip
| > | laundry markers work well on most every type of cable jacket I've used
| > | over the years. The ink dries quickly and it will last until Jesus
| > | comes back.
| > |
| > | Regards,
| > | Robert L Bass
| > | www.BassBurglarAlarms.com
| > |
| >
| >
|

 

[Jim]

We use tha sharpie method and usually you can break off the mud and
still discern the wording underneath. on the few you can't... thats
what the toner is for.
the trick is to not use too fine a point on the sharpie. thick black
lines are easy to read even in poor lighting and the wire legend never
gets lost unless your helpful sub cuts off the wires - but even then
they weren't lost.... just mixed up...

And now they have the push button sharpies - Click-click and you're in
business... no more caps in the teeth and black dots on the cheeks...

That's funny.

Sometimes those marks take days to wash off entirely.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks to all for the helpfull ideas: I appreciate them, one and
all . . .

 

[Mike Sokoly]

Try One of these: about 100 bucks:

http://global.dymo.com/enUS/Products/RhinoPRO_3000.html

 

[Mike Sokoly]

www.milestek.com has it for $81.25!

Try One of these: about 100 bucks:

 

[julian]

Something I used to do on big jobs was to make all motion detectors
.....say tan wire.
All door contacts brown wire. etc etc along with a number list or word
tags or writing on wire. Makes it a lot easier to keep track of ,sort
out and trace wires if necessary. How the wires are marked would
depend on the size of the job, and how many people were working on it
or if I'm not going to be working on it at all and having a sub do the
work. If you do the work, you're going to remember some of what you did
and you should have developed some pattern to your wiring. If someone
else is doing it, you'll want them to give you the most detail as they
can. Written wire list take the most time and attention but is best.

Yes I agree with the wire colour idea. We use red for powered devices,
grey for phone, brown for doors, white for windows. We run 24/8, CAT3
wire to all keypads. Often the end of the keypad wire is run to the
adjacent door, thus saving a brown wire run, We use the brown pair of
the CAT3 for the door contact, duh! Siren, strobe get individual 18/2,
with 18/3 run for power. Ground wire is present if needed, but panels
are generally not grounded. Smoke and other supervisory devices get
grey wires as well.

Additionally we use standard wrap around wire markers and keep track
on a wirelist that is later tranferred to disk and accessible quickly
from the office or my home office (thank you PC Anywhere!).

On the wirelest itself is a breif description of the location of the
device. Keypads are above light switches unless otherwise noted and
when used, motion detectors are in corners, hidden. Glassbreak
detector locations vary so much due to different layouts, that there
is little standardization, but since I purchased a digital camera,
it's easy to relate the wirelist description with the picture, should
there be a problem locating a wire. Since DVDs are so cheap, it's no
big deal keeping lots of 1 -1.5 Mb pictures around. I have to go to
each site to check the prewire anyway, so it's a good use of my time.
I also take pictures of speaker prewires so it's easy to see the
speaker location after drywall.

Our alarm and audio prewires are buried and this takes the drywaller
out of the wire location equation. How many times have you cursed the
drywaller for pulling a wire out of the wall in the wrong place? That
won't happen anymore.

It is alot of work to keep accurate records, but it pays off in the
long run. I don't know about anyone else, but when I sell my accounts,
the paperwork and recording keeping will be hard to surpass. I've seen
some real poor recording keeping as I'm sure most of you have.

Anyone ever use the inside of the can as the 'wirelist'? I took over
an old PC1550 system this week that had this done. I wrote it down on
my blank wirelist sheet anyway.....

Just wondering.... is it ethical to keep records, i.e. files including
programming sheets and wirelests, of systems that are now monitored by
others?

Julian