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Katrina, British style

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by John Larkin, Jul 24, 2007.

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  1. James Arthur

    James Arthur Guest

  2. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Well, it's another case where everybody knew for years that it would
    storm/rain, and the proper preparations were not made, and the costs
    will be extreme. Makes you want to re-read The Nine Tailors, where the
    same situation was remarked on.

    The necessary money was spent elsewhere.


    I can't read a restaurant review these days without Global Warming
    being lamented.

    "It is tempting to blame the appalling weather on climate change,
    which is believed to increase the chances of extreme rainfall events.
    But one wet summer on its own proves very little. In fact, the top ten
    wettest Julys all happened two or three centuries ago."

    John
     
  3. James Arthur

    James Arthur Guest

    The readers' comments suggest it might be worse--several remark on
    increased runoff due to extensive urbanization, and siting
    developments on flood plains. I.e., not just inaction, but actively
    man-made.
    LA Times style, that's paragraph 14. Paragraphs 1 though 13 as much
    as say that greenhouses gasses converge over the UK to make it rain on
    London.

    What suprised me were the skeptical comments left by readers of both
    articles. In the USA those people would be shouted down and ridiculed
    as 'denyers.'

    Best,
    James
     
  4. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

  5. Eeyore

    Eeyore Guest

    "Global warming is generating heavier rainfall over Britain of the sort that has
    triggered this week’s floods, scientists have confirmed for the first time."

    You mean they waited for it to happen and then claimed the credit ? I'd like to
    know who these 'scientists' are.

    "The findings, from an international team including several British scientists,
    do not prove that this week’s flooding is the direct result of global warming:
    it is linked to weather patterns that have been known before."

    So, flooding is normal. Yes I already knew that.

    Graham
     
  6. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I watched that mini ice age thing...

    http://store.aetv.com/html/product/index.jhtml?id=74653

    again on the History Channel two nights ago.

    Pretty obvious that's what is going to happen again.

    But Bush will be blamed... even for the warming on Mars... must be
    nice to be such an omnipotent being ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  7. James Arthur

    James Arthur Guest

    Sorry to hear it! One tip: your food will keep a couple days if you
    *don't* open your freezer. After that, open it up and start the bar-b-
    que.

    Best of luck to you.

    --James
     
  8. Actually it looks like they managed to save the regional power
    distribution station, so hopefully we will keep power (500k people
    were at risk of no power for 2+ weeks). But water supply has now
    failed unfortunately, the regional water works is at the "epicenter"
    so was flooded early on.

    There are queues for water, helicopter rescues - it did remind me of
    the Katrina coverage. But no loss of life AFAIK.
     
  9. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    We actually had such an event in North Scottsdale in the mid '70's.
    Tornado roared thru, left my house standing except for fence damage,
    but several people's roofs in my pool :-(

    Then it rained for three days. Left us as an island. They flew water
    and food, baby diapers, etc., into Cocopah Elementary School (a block
    away) in helicopters.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  10. DaveC

    DaveC Guest

    We actually had such an event in North Scottsdale in the mid '70's.
    I remember that. I was in Tucson in college then. We got wet, but nothing
    like the Phoenix area...

    Probably seems odd, to non-desert rats, that in the middle of the desert you
    can drown.
     
  11. Joerg

    Joerg Guest


    I remember camping in the desert way north of Phoenix. Bone dry,
    blistering sun, not a whiff of a cloud anywhere. A ranger came by and
    told us to get out of there, and pronto. There would be water roaring
    through here in a few hours, he said.
     
  12. I have yet to read the links in this thread, but I have a couple
    comments already:

    1. The severe rainstorm was probably caused by a an unusual random
    variation in weather conditions that occured mainly or entirely for
    reasons other than global warming. There is some chance that due
    to "butterfly effect" man-made causes caused such a bad rainstorm
    to occur when it did as opposed to days or years earlier or later, though
    such bad rainstorms are expected to occur every several decades even
    without human interference. Weather history has a big track record of
    things occaisionally going whacko.

    2. Point 1 does not negate the existence of global warming and its
    few negative consequences that it is actually causing already and the
    greater negative causes that it will probably cause a few to several
    decades from now.

    - Don Klipstein ()
     
  13. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    We are clearly heading into the warming phase that proceeds a mini (or
    worse) ice age.

    But it's not man-made, it's normal sun cycles.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  14. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    How come GW never, never, never has projected positive consequences?
    All we hear is flooding, drought, disease, famine, species
    extermination... all gloom.

    John
     
  15. The USA has some significant problems with urban sprawl removing natural
    means of slowing rainfall runoff (forests and grasslands with tall weeds)
    and replacing these with pavement, mowed lawns and buildings. This means
    that a bad short-term heavy rainstorm (typically a heavy thunderstorm
    formation or a tropical storm, and these are mainly summer to mid-autumn
    events) will flood floodplains more badly than a similar rainstorm did in
    the past.
    This is not a complaint of human activity affecting the weather, but a
    complaint of human activity degrading ability of some areas to handle
    weather conditions that have ocurred before and will occur again.
    So what was London's rainfall in each of the past 10 years, the 10
    before that, and its average over a time period at least 30 years long
    ending 10-20 years ago?
    Keep in mind that there is such a thing as weather patterns getting into
    "ruts" of decade time scale, and I mention some examples:

    1. Especially low incidence of hurricanes affecting USA east coast north
    of Virginia Beach between 1900 and 1945.

    2. Hurricanes picking on Florida around 1950 and in the early '50's.

    3. Hurricanes picking on the USA east coast farther north from the mid
    '50's to the early '60's.

    4. Decrease in hurricane problems to the USA from the late 1970's to
    sometime in the 1990's.

    5. Northeast USA having a string of bad winters from late 1976 to early
    1982, and the 1984-1985 winter was no picnic.

    6. Mid-Atlantic USA had a string of bad hot summers from 1991-1995.

    7. 1930's extreme heat up and down the USA Great Plains and eastward
    to Pennsylvania, especially 1932-1936.
    Keep in mind that if the weather acts up in some ways for a few or even
    several years, the cause may be a natural one and probably is.

    Not that I think this disproves man-made global warming and the few ill
    effects that it is actually already causing and the greater ill effects
    that it will probably cause a few to several decades from now.

    - Don Klipstein ()
     
  16. Especially beware of dry riverbeds and any similar low stretches of
    land. Beware of areas having any evidence of intermittent past water
    flow and areas that are low enough to be candidates for flooding if the
    weather goes bonkers.

    Be aware of American weather - I say that "normal American weather" is
    for the weather to be "normal" for sufficient amounts of time to allow one
    to believe that there is such a thing as "normal weather in America", and
    the weather sometimes goes screwball - did so before and will do so again.

    Also beware of the "Temperate Zone". It appears to me that "temperate"
    is a word that works like the word "flammable". "Flammable" and
    "inflammable" mean the same thing, so I think that "temperate" weather is
    the same as "intemperate" weather. It appears to me that the "Temperate
    Zone" is where the weather has a temper (worse than elsewhere on this
    planet).

    - Don Klipstein ()
     
  17. Probably from thunderstorms blowing up near an edge of a mountainous
    or otherwise elevated area upstream from the area in question.

    This is occaisionally an actual problem in some desert areas of the
    southwest USA, and I suspect also in some nearby areas of Mexico.

    - Don Klipstein ()
     
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