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Japan shuts down last Nuke Plant.

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by Vaughn, May 5, 2012.

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  1. Vaughn

    Vaughn Guest

    Compared to what? Can we continue to belch megatons of pollutants and
    greenhouse gases in the air? What will be the cost to clean that up?
    What is the cost of ecological damage from coal mining and gas
    drilling/transportation? and how does that compare to similar damage
    from uranium mining?

    When comparing things, you really need to compare all costs, internal
    and external. The use of nuclear power admittedly involves potential
    environmental consequences, but the use of fossil power (the only actual
    alternative to nuclear power) involves CERTAIN environmental consequences.

    Vaughn
     
  2. Mho

    Mho Guest

    Nuke energy has been classically cheaper. Now we have discovered hidden
    subsidies that have been removed.

    -----------
    "Vaughn" wrote in message
    Compared to what? Can we continue to belch megatons of pollutants and
    greenhouse gases in the air? What will be the cost to clean that up?
    What is the cost of ecological damage from coal mining and gas
    drilling/transportation? and how does that compare to similar damage
    from uranium mining?

    When comparing things, you really need to compare all costs, internal
    and external. The use of nuclear power admittedly involves potential
    environmental consequences, but the use of fossil power (the only actual
    alternative to nuclear power) involves CERTAIN environmental consequences.

    Vaughn
     
  3. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    What do you think the cost per KWH would be if all those were
    considered?

    I pay ~$0.151 per KWH now.

    jsw
     
  4. Mho

    Mho Guest

    I believe the subsidies are supposed to be over and done with here. I am
    paying 6.2 cents per kWh but the end bill comes to about 14 cents/kWh. I
    have to assume that the cost rise due to subsidy removal on nuke energy is
    done.

    However, with the alternative energy sources being developed and subsidised
    this price is definitely going to increase. Our provincial Hydro has had
    80.2 cents shoved up their butts, kicking and screaming, for PV, but it
    definitely helped develop an industry here. Long term? Maybe. I am not sure
    who is paying that bill. I didn't get any of it and lived on PV for a few
    years building a home. The result of most subsidies is the prices go up and
    the contractors get richer.
    I am trying to mount same on my designed slope garage roof, right now.
    Geeez! $100 per panel for just the racking and hearing $200-300 per panel to
    install plus electrical. Not sure if I want to crawl out on a 12:12 pitch
    roof and do this myself anymore. I am telling my wife it may be cheaper to
    smash the PV panels and throw them in the garbage than pay the $5K to save
    $500 worth of energy for the rest of our lives. They still lean against the
    side of my barn being held in the wind by the connections...LOL

    Yeah, I can see both sides of the argument but the prices are going to rise
    for sure...a lot.

    -----------

    "Jim Wilkins" wrote in message What do you think the cost per KWH would be if all those were
    considered?

    I pay ~$0.151 per KWH now.

    jsw
     
  5. Bob F

    Bob F Guest

    In the US, they haven't removed a major subsidy on nuclear, the Price Anderson
    Nuclear Industries Indemnity Act.
     
  6. Vaughn

    Vaughn Guest

    Sometimes a subsidy is in the eye of the beholder. Since the government
    has never had to pay any claims under Price Anderson, some would argue
    that it's not really a subsidy at all.

    On the other hand, coal and natural gas power plants are allowed to
    damage our environment by belching their waste products directly into
    our atmosphere, but have no present or future responsibility to mitigate
    that damage. Some would also argue that huge immunity doesn't
    constitute a major subsidy, but I would disagree.

    Vaughn
     
  7. Bob F

    Bob F Guest

    If there were an accident, the injured parties in the US would likely receive
    very little in compensation. They cannot buy insurance for nuclear accidents.
    Utilities have limited responsibility. So the system transfers the
    responsibility for accidents to the victims. Not exactly fair, in my mind, and
    without a doubt, a very clear subsidy to encourage a power source that has
    demomstrated increasingly more damage worldwide in the last decades.

    The total cost to the utility, country, and people of Japan won't be know for
    decades or more. Reports of radioactive fish elsewhere suggest that the damage
    my spread far beyond Japan.

    They said it couldn't happen. It did.
     
  8. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    They all have problems. Reduce your consumption.
     
  9. Curbie

    Curbie Guest

    Bingo! But I wonder how many people even consider THEIR consumption,
    my circumstances are different than others, but I consume 220kWh of
    electricity, 5 terms of NG, and 1 gallon of gasoline per month on a
    yearly average for the two years I've been tracking it. My point here
    is not the numbers themselves, but knowing and making and effort to
    improve them.

    People talk about energy as if the problem is the way it's produced
    and not the demand that THEY themselves place on producers for cheap
    supply.

    Curbie
     
  10. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    I've cut electricity use to below 150 KWH / month, but I've run out of
    reasonable ways to reduce it much further. That includes electric hot
    water.

    The household average here is 624 KWH / month according to this report
    on the recent scrubber upgrade to reduce mercury emissions from
    burning coal.
    http://www.epa.gov/region1/npdes/merrimackstation/pdfs/ar/AR-390.pdf

    jsw
     
  11. Mho

    Mho Guest

    As long as it doesn't affect anything I do I am all for all of that green
    stuff.

    ---------

    "Curbie" wrote in message
    Bingo! But I wonder how many people even consider THEIR consumption,
    my circumstances are different than others, but I consume 220kWh of
    electricity, 5 terms of NG, and 1 gallon of gasoline per month on a
    yearly average for the two years I've been tracking it. My point here
    is not the numbers themselves, but knowing and making and effort to
    improve them.

    People talk about energy as if the problem is the way it's produced
    and not the demand that THEY themselves place on producers for cheap
    supply.

    Curbie
     
  12. mike

    mike Guest

    +1
    I'm pretty damn frugal. I try to do my part for the planet.
    But, lately, I've been wondering whether I'd rather be
    standing in front of St. Peter explaining how the Earth died
    in spite of my heroic efforts.
    OR
    Laughing with Lucifer about how much my extravagant motorcycle
    got me laid.

    There's gotta be a balance somewhere. I fear that by the
    time we figger it out, we'll all be dead.

    I'll think about it while I go for a ride to the store to
    shop for extravagant motorcycles.
     
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