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Is this wiring illegal in the USA?

Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by Chuck, Jan 29, 2008.

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  1. Chuck

    Chuck Guest

  2. Guest

    |> The link below shows a flexible standard lamp socket extension cable. ?I
    |> actually would like one that holds it shape like flexible metal conduit
    |> would. ?If its not illegal, why cant I find one anywhere on the Internet?
    |>
    |> http://www.phaesun.com/produktPopup.php?ArtId=101593&flash=no
    |>
    |> Chuck
    |
    | Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
    | If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.

    What other listing agencies would make it legal?
     
  3. Tom Horne

    Tom Horne Guest

    ETL is the recognized abbreviation for Electrical Testing Laboratories
    which is now a division of Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. They
    provide product testing for conformance to recognized safety standards.
    There listing mark is just as acceptable in the safety inspection
    industry as UL. It's just not as well known to the General Public.
     
  4. Roy

    Roy Guest

    Itz da perfect male torture device

    hahaha I am so twisted };)

    Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
    [have tools, will travel]
     
  5. Palindrome

    Palindrome Guest

    Well, if you ever mistook one of those for your recreational device with
    the vacuum pump bulb on the end. you sure would be.

    "Sunday Extenda" indeed... you couldn't make it up..Someone has a great
    sense of humour. What next, an "Everyready Rabbit"?
     
  6. Chuck

    Chuck Guest

    Ahhhhhhhhh....... that is the explanation I was looking for. Thank you.

    Chuck
     
  7. Roy

    Roy Guest

    From:(Palindrome)
    Roy wrote:
    Itz da perfect male torture device
    hahaha I am so twisted };)
    -----------------
    Well, if you ever mistook one of those for your recreational device with
    the vacuum pump bulb on the end. you sure would be.
    "Sunday Extenda" indeed... you couldn't make it up..Someone has a great
    sense of humour. What next, an "Everyready Rabbit"?
    --
    Sue
    ----------------------
    It's probably another good reason it might not be approved in the
    USA...Though I've met a few Hardcore [tap into the mains with their bare
    fingers] show off Electricians that I'd challenge to try it, since they
    are so comfy with electricity, I guess they'd have fun putting a pot or
    a dimmer on it and just Plug & PLay teeheehee }:)

    Roy Q.T. ~ US/NCU ~ E.E. Technician
    [have tools, will travel]
     
  8. Guest

    48:53 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
    |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
    |>
    |>What other listing agencies would make it legal
    |
    | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL

    OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
     
  9. bud--

    bud-- Guest

    [NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory]

    The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the
    notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything
    general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions
    follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-ass reasons.

    OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long
    established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA
    also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards
    are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone
    through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that
    are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals
    for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some
    may do only one, some (like UL) many.

    As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but
    additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those
    standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And
    figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs
    actually out there?]

    So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
     
  10. Guest

    | wrote:
    |> On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 00:32:22 -0500 wrote:
    |> | On 30 Jan 2008 02:48:53 GMT, wrote:
    |> |
    |> |>| Is it listed by UL, CSA, or some other listing agency?
    |> |>| If it is not listed it is probably is illegal.
    |> |>
    |> |>What other listing agencies would make it legal
    |> |
    |> | ETL, TUV or any other NRTL
    |>
    |> OK, so then those Schuko outlets I imported from Germany should be allowed.
    |>
    |
    | [NRTL = Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory]
    |
    | The NEC religiously avoids mention NRTLs and requires approval by the
    | notorious authority-having-jurisdiction. I have never seen anything
    | general about what is acceptable to AHJs. I suspect most jurisdictions
    | follow what OSHA does, partly for legal cover-your-ass reasons.
    |
    | OSHA was sued, twice, to force recognition of labs other than the long
    | established UL, FM, and probably ETL. OSHA now has a list of NRTLs. OSHA
    | also has a list of standards for inspection. Most electrical standards
    | are from UL, some IEEE, a few FM... (?The standards may all have gone
    | through the ANSI approval process?) I don't remember any standards that
    | are from the new NRTLs. OSHA qualifies each NRTL as able to do approvals
    | for specific standards. Some OSHA NRTLs do no electrical approvals,some
    | may do only one, some (like UL) many.
    |
    | As I understand OSHA, the standards for inspection haven't changed, but
    | additional laboratories can list/label products as meeting those
    | standards. That means new inspection marks to be familiar with. And
    | figuring out what your AHJ allows. [Is much product from new NRTLs
    | actually out there?]
    |
    | So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.

    So what is wrong with TUV?
     
  11. Chuck

    Chuck Guest

    So in plain English, why is it that I can buy a metallic lamp or appliance
    with a two-prong plug (line and neutral - no ground) but not the flexible
    socket extender? No I am confused again.

    Chuck
     
  12. ehsjr

    ehsjr Guest

    An extender such as you describe would put mechanical
    stress on the socket you are extending, far beyond
    whatever mechanical stress a bulb puts on that socket.

    Without *knowing* for sure, I strongly suspect that
    manufacturers would avoid trying to make a product such
    as you describe that could get UL (or other lab) listing,
    because such listing would be costly or impossible
    to obtain.

    In my opinion, even the flexible one shown in the link you
    provided is a bad idea, because of the stress it puts on the
    existing socket. One that is rigid enough to retain the shape
    you bend in into would be far worse.

    Ed
     
  13. Guest

    26:54 GMT, wrote:
    |
    |>| So no, your Schuko outlets are probably not allowed.
    |>
    |>So what is wrong with TUV?
    |
    | Nothing and if TUV/US has listed these they are legal ... but I doubt
    | it. You also may bump up against the listing for lamp holders.
    | I really don't know what is in UL496 and how it deals with pendant
    | adapters. I don't see any reference in the U/L white book.

    But what of TUV from Europe. These devices are safe in Europe. How is it
    they become unsafe in the USA? Is it because both pins would have line
    voltage on them at the same time? I think not since the Schuko must be
    safe with 240 volts line voltage (relative to ground) on either pin.

    Yes, these devices would be considered unsafe on a 120 volt circuit in the
    USA due to lack of polarization. However, they would be safe on a 240 volt
    circuit because the polarization is not relevant on USA split 240 volt.
     
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