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Is there such a thing as best?

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Guest, May 6, 2004.

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  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm considering replacing my rented alarm system at home with a purchased
    one.

    The current DSC Power 8 is (according to the ADT man) jut not big enough for
    my requirements. (i need about 19 zones.

    So he wants to sell me a DSC Power832 system, which is on special (surprise)
    in a kit with some passives and door sensors etc...

    He maintains that the DSC is used exclusivly by ADT as it is the best there
    is.

    Any opinions?

    Thanks
    Michael
     
  2. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Sir, I would suggest you use some caution accepting ADT's assertion that DSC
    is the best equipment around. The "best" is a subjective thing and often
    depends upon which equipment a particular company cut their teeth on;
    however, it might help you to know that ADT and DSC are both owned by Tyco,
    and from the deterioration of the quality control on DSC equipment lately,
    it's clear that ADT have far too much say in what goes on within DSC
    itself...

    I'm only a small dealer with some 500 Paradox panels in service and about
    150 DSC panels. However, it's quite clear to me based on service that of the
    two makes, Paradox is FAR superior in all respects. Other makes I can't
    speak about since I wouldn't know most of them if they fell off the shelf
    and hit me on the head

    Depending upon which area of the country you're in, there may be many other
    makes more commonly available. But when all is said, the Power 832 IS a
    pretty good system depending upon what you want to do with the panel...

    RHC
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am in Johannesburg (RSA), and the whole DSC / ADT relationship doesn't
    surprise me in the least.

    Problem is (and I'm just starting to get a handle on this) is that we have
    in SA, an organisation called SAIDSA (see http://www.saidsa.co.za) who have
    written up "Bylaw 25". The insurance companies demand that the installation
    be done "bylaw 25 compliant" - or no insurance and ADT demand that I must
    indemnify them from bylaw 25 compliance if they themselves don't do the
    installation with their own equipment.

    I m stating it a little harshly, but that is the implicit message I get from
    them.

    If I did the installation myself and then asked for a compliance crtificate,
    they would inspect and for a small fee (R400 = US$57) they would provide,
    assumng everything is compliant.

    So, I gt a quote on Optex DX40PIR for inside at R334 (US$47) whn all other
    PIRs range between R90 - R160 ($13 - $23)
    A fixed panic button is quoted at R51 ($8)

    These prices seem way out of proportion and I cannot see the value in the
    deal. Of course in SA the fear factor is available at very turn, ad I get
    the feeling ADT are milking it for all they are worth.

    Cheers
    Michael
     
  4. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    No it doesn't. It just goes to show that ADT recognizes the need for
    variety. You read WAY too much from the actions of others.
     
  5. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    So you expect them to assure bylaw 25 compliance if they didn't do the work
    with their own equipment? They are supposed to just trust you (or others)
    and then get snagged later when it's found out that the installation wasn't
    up to par? Not saying they are perfect, but I'd NEVER put my signature on
    anything that I didn't have full control over. ...and I'd feel a little
    better taking a hit for installing a non-compliant system (when it should
    have been) than I would taking a hit for someone else pretty much just
    shafting me.
     
  6. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Napco only makes the bottom end Safewatch EZ GEM-P801, why ADT chose Napco
    when they had plenty of other panels from DSC that could do the same thing
    is beyond me

    Had ADT recognized the need for variety they would have chosen other Napco
    panels
     
  7. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    The answer is of course no, the best out there by far is the AT&T 8000
     
  8. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Did you see any statements from ADT, Napco, DSC, or anyone else that said
    they plan to drop the DSC product?
     
  9. Come on guys....
    You all know the real answer. The only reason they have gone to Napco is
    that Loxxon didn't have the available production capacity!
    Geess....
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The problem is that noone alse is as interested in installing the system
    neatly. The first installation had guys drilling through my pressed steel
    ceilings which is quite simply, lazy. I'd be happy to take the time to
    install conduits and route the wires neatly. And yes, I agree that asking
    them to assure someone elses work could be wrong. But I am prepard to pay
    them to do the inspection and do a full examination.

    Another situation would be where I move into a house and find an alarm
    system already in place. I bought the house because of these "extra selling
    point". So if I was to follow your logic, then it means that rightaway, the
    whole system must be ripped out and re-installed with a new one, because at
    least the technician could feel comnfortable that it was his own work.

    In SA, when you sell a house the seller has to provide an electrical
    compliance certiicate. It invariably happens that the electrical contractor
    doing the inspection has one or two things to fix and then he issues the
    paperwork. I have never heard of a contractor ripping all the wires out of a
    house to replace them again simply because it was not his work and
    equipment.

    Cheers
    Michael
     
  11. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    I agree with you on that point 100%. Curious to know if he was a true ADT
    rep or a dealer.
    I was simply addressing your statement that seemed to imply that ADT had
    somehow lost confidence in the DSC products and that that was somehow
    indicated by their recent link to Napco... I've seen no indicators either
    for or against that and was wondering where your source was.
     
  12. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Problem is that a "full examination" really IS an installation... I have to
    see the wire from panel to sensor (including behind the sensor in the wall).
    If the system was previously Bylaw 25 Compliant, that certification should
    have been transferred with the liability still resting on the original
    installation company. If it was NOT compliant, then, yes, your example would
    be a reality.
    But it was previously compliant. Installing a compliant system when one did
    not previously exist and updating/transferring an existing certificate after
    a full test are two differen't things.
     
  13. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    Robbert doesn't know anything about DSC panels (as he's never installed one).
    His "opinion" of DSC is based on what a number of others in the group have said
    about the various products they manufacture. He actually has little in the way
    of "first hand" experience with a lot of what he shills on the Internet. He's
    posted both "for" and "against" Ademco's line of contacts (and in the latest
    round soundly came out "against" them)... yet he still offers them for sale on
    his websites... Robbert is an opportunist. He's as much as admitted that he's
    opted to carry *all* the popular brands of panels for the simple fact that he
    doesn't want to miss a sale... You'll find his "opinion" of ADT is all over the
    map as well depending on who's posting (either "for" or "against").

    ADT in Vancouver kicks ass!!
     
  14. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest



    ROFL!!!
     
  15. Bob4Secur

    Bob4Secur Guest

    There is no ryme or reason to anything ADT/Tyco does. I provide monitoring
    and service for both burg and fire alarm for one of the buildings (the old
    Sensormatic manufacturing building) owned by Tyco. They pay me every month
    like clockwork I quess they don't trust any of their entities. I'll take the
    money.

    Bob4Secur
     
  16. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Why change just because the company that bought you happens to own a
    monitoring company? If you are happy with the service, stay with that you
    have.

    ADT isn't some Nazi company that's going to say, "Oh goodie! More captives!
    Surrender your monitoring to us!"
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ahhh, aint that the point. "Bylaw 25" has only yesterday been finally
    implemented for insurance companies. So the infrastructure and the paradigm
    of "I'd like to offer on your house, can I have compliance certificate for
    the alarm and the electrical" s still to develop here.
     
  18. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    Then you are in a seriously screwed up position... They should have offered
    some sort of "grandfathering" clause...
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Difficult position? Yep tell me about it.

    I have not heard of the "grandfathering clause". Can you tell me a little
    more?
     
  20. Aegis

    Aegis Guest

    In the US, when they change something as drastically as that, they usually
    have a grandfather clause.

    And example: If the electrical code were to change and now said that all
    outlets in a house have to be GFI (ground fault interrupt) for safety, that
    code wouldn't apply to houses already built. It would only apply to new
    construction and existing houses that were being remodeled. So if you have
    an older house without GFI's, you wouldn't have to put them in until you
    remodeled, IF you chose to remodel some time in the future. Sometimes the
    grandfather clause has a time effect... That means the code wouldn't apply
    to you RIGHT NOW, but will at some given future date to give you plenty of
    time to get it done.

    One of the main reasons for this clause is because when they change
    something like that, you'd have EVERY homeowner in the
    city/county/state/country (whichever applies) having to cough up the money
    all of a sudden... That REALLY hurts the chances of certain people being
    reelected! Also, sometimes it just can't be done. There are only x amount of
    electricians out there, for example, and they'd be swamped for years
    changing out outlets all over the city.

    So, they should have included a clause for Bylaw 25 that said, at least,
    that you have a year or so to get this done. At best, they should have said
    if you already have a working system, forget it; this law applies to new
    systems starting now.

    Don't know who wrote this bylaw; have you read it?
     
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